1989 Force 85 WOT

Lzryde

Recruit
Joined
May 27, 2022
Messages
3
I'm having trouble getting WOT out of my Force 85 outboard in my 1989 Bayliner Capri.

IMG_20220526_141914.jpg

The nylon blocks under the flywheel for timing adjustment are hitting the engine block well before the rubber throttle stop on the towershaft contacts the bolt head on the block. This limits the amount of travel of the towershaft and prevents me from getting the throttle to travel from index line to WOT on the throttle cam.

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The only thing I can think of is that the orientation of the nylon blocks is wrong. The straight one should be on the towershaft and the offset one on the stator.

But every video and image I can find of this or similar motors says the current configuration is correct. I must be missing something.

Any input is appreciated.
 

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jerryjerry05

Supreme Mariner
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
17,926
Do the butterfly's open all the way?
 

Lzryde

Recruit
Joined
May 27, 2022
Messages
3
I've got it pretty close now, but I have yet to set the timing or idle speed.

I've got it where the butterflies open almost completely horizontal.

I did notice that in the timing video pinned by Frank Acampora he says that after adjusting your idle speed, the index line on the throttle cam may not line up with the eccentric screw on the carburetor linkage.

 

jerryjerry05

Supreme Mariner
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
17,926
The butterflies may be past horizontal or may not go horizontal.
Operate the lever by hand and see how far it goes?
The final output is affected by prop size, load.
A 21 makes the motor work harder than a 15p.
It's a combination on the load, prop and boat.
Idle has no effect on wide open.
There's 2 systems in the carb.
The air screw is set so it's a smooth idle.
Which in turn might make the rpm's higher.
 

Lzryde

Recruit
Joined
May 27, 2022
Messages
3
I've attached a couple pics of full throttle and no throttle. Butterflies are opened pretty much all the way at full throttle. The picture of the index line near the eccentric screw is with no throttle. Butterflies are still closed at that point. So I think I got it figured out now.

I think my problem was I was trying to get the resting position of the throttle to line up at the index line on the throttle cam, but that's not possible without sacrificing WOT at the butterflies. Prioritize setting your WOT to open the butterflies fully. Like Frank said in the video you aren't going to end up lining up in the index line.
IMG_20220529_145142.jpgIMG_20220529_145150.jpgIMG_20220529_145204.jpgIMG_20220529_145157.jpg
 

The Force power

Commander
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
2,250
I've got it pretty close now, but I have yet to set the timing or idle speed.

I've got it where the butterflies open almost completely horizontal.

I did notice that in the timing video pinned by Frank Acampora he says that after adjusting your idle speed, the index line on the throttle cam may not line up with the eccentric screw on the carburetor linkage.

Here's a old post (from the late Frank) that I have printed out & live by;
1.Disconnect the ball link to the carb cam at the timing tower. Disconnecting at the cam risks bending the cam. Move the cam away from the carb roller.
2. Loosen the screw(s) on the aluminum tie bar and let all carbs close completely, then tighten again.
3. Set the cam so that the scribed line is pointing directly at the black roller on the carb lever. If the cam has two closely spaced lines, set the black roller directly between them.
4. The black roller is held with an offset screw and nut. Loosen the nut and turn the screw until the black roller JUST touches the cam. Tighten the nut and re-attach the ball link maintaining the scribed line at the roller.
5. Adjust the ball link so that at full throttle the bottom carb butterfly opens substantially horizontally. Adjust the aluminum tie bar so all carb butterflies open equally at full throttle. They need not be perfect but should be rather close to horizontal for best performance.
6. Adjust timing to 28 degrees before top dead center at full throttle. ( STATIC TIMING / CRANKING SPEED )
7. Adjust idle speed to 700-750 RPM in the water in forward gear. Do this with the screw on the bottom of the timing tower. Loosen the locknut and adjust. Screwing in increases idle speed. Do this in small increments and let the engine rev and adjust itself before the next adjustment. A little goes a long way here. When correct, tighten the nut. Note that the scribed line on the roller will now be (usually) below the black roller a bit.
8. NOW we adjust the mixture on the carbs. Set all low speed needles to about 1 1/4 turns out from lightly seated. Do not force as this will damage either the needles or the seats.
8A. With the engine idling in neutral, turn each the needles in equally about 1/8 turn at a time. Give the engine a couple of seconds between each adjustment to stabilize. Adjust until the engine either "sags" or stalls. Note this setting.
8B. Now go the opposite direction. Adjust until the engine runs rough, burbles, or stalls. Note this setting.
8C. Set all needles to the average between the two settings: That is, for example, if it stalled at 3/4 turn out and burbled at 1 1/4 out then set all needles to 1 turn out.
8D. Readjust idle speed to 700-750 RPM.
9. Take the boat out on the water and do a "hole shot"--Full throttle acceleration from a stop. If the engine "sags" then recovers and picks-up it is too lean. Open the needles about 1/16 turn at a time until the engine accelerates with no hesitation.
If the engine sputters or coughs or burbles, then clears itself and accelerates, it is too rich. Close the needles about 1/16 turn at a time until the engine accelerates smoothly.

10. I can NOT stress this enough! NEVER set the low speed needles less that 1 turns out no matter how poor the idle or acceleration. To do so will run the engine too lean and detonation and melted pistons at or near full throttle operation will result.
 

lostinohio

Cadet
Joined
Sep 7, 2020
Messages
29
I've had this same issue except the lower piece on shaft has slop in it. If throttle is wot you can physically grap the shaft and the slop will let it open the plates the rest of the way
 
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