YOUR LAKE - SOLD! (i hope this pisses you off)

gbillingsly

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Nov 2, 2002
Messages
34
To my boating and angling friends:<br /> <br />We have just been made aware of a strategy by the Corp of Engineers to make the lakes that your tax dollars built, out of access to the average fisherman and boater.<br /> <br />In the past you could buy an annual pass that would allow you access to launch your boat at Corp lakes all over the state of Texas. This may be dissapearing soon if something isn't done to change the current course.<br /> <br />On Grapevine Lake they have allowed the City of Grapevine to lease the boat ramps and the Corp of Engineers told me that they can charge whatever fees they want! <br /><br />In this case, the increases are as much as 300% of what they had been for years. I used to buy an annual pass for $25 and it is now $75.<br /><br />They are even discriminating by giving Grapevine residents a reduced fee permit pass - although it's still 140% of what last years passes cost!<br /><br />When you add up the cost of boat tags, trailer tags and these launch fees -it is astronomical!<br /> <br />The initial term of the current lease is only for 6 months - therefore this is our very short window of time to let our voice be known. It's everyones lake - can we keep it that way?<br /> <br />Please feel free to send petitions to my attention to have them batched and submitted to the Corp of Engineers, City of Grapevine, and our local and State of Texas Representatives.<br /> <br />Thank you for your efforts. If WE don't do something - WHO WILL?<br /><br />G. Billingsly<br />1217 Woodsey Court, Southlake, TX 76092<br />(817) 481-9900<br /><br />Any other suggestions will be appreciated.
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: YOUR LAKE - SOLD! (i hope this pisses you off)

Hmmm.<br /><br />It has been a few years since I fished Grapevine. Based on my experience the last two or three times I went there I don't want to go back.<br /><br />I lived on the lake back in the early 70s, kept my boat in one of those floating boathouses. The fishing, crappie, white bass ("sandies"), largemouth was excellent. It was a great place to live and a great lake to live on.<br /><br />But: The last time I was on the lake I had to wait in line for over an hour to launch and the lake was crowded with those boaters who haven't the first clue about courtesy on the water.<br /><br />Maybe this is a strategy by the city to cut the traffic and turn the lake back into a pleasant recreational and fishing lake, with favoritism to residents. I wish them luck in their goal, but I agree that the method sux.<br /><br />I will continue to go to PK and local state park lakes to do my fishing, plus my once or twice a year trips to LOTW.<br /><br />There are many better places to fish within range of Southlake. Give some of them a shot. :)
 

gbillingsly

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Nov 2, 2002
Messages
34
Re: YOUR LAKE - SOLD! (i hope this pisses you off)

Thanks JB. It's about money and special interests. The City and Corp allowed the Opry to be built on the shoreline! They said it was to reduce taxes and provide more $ for lake improvement. Now it appears that they are sticking it to all of us old timers that have fished the lake for years. There may be better lakes but this one is real convenient for me and my fishing buddies.<br /><br />The real issue is that if the Corp can "sell off" through leases - who knows what other Corp lakes will be next! Are you prepared to pay a $75 fee for EACH of the lakes that you frequent.<br /><br />I just found out that the City of Trophy Club is slated to lease a big park at the west end of the lake and repeat this type of situation - excluding the recreational vehicle activity that has been there for years.
 

Whaler Proud

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Feb 23, 2003
Messages
187
Re: YOUR LAKE - SOLD! (i hope this pisses you off)

Does this include city owned ramps? I launch out by the dam and paid only $6.00 each day. This is a reasonable amount for me. I'll be glad to support your cause, shoot me an email.<br /><br />JB: The crowds at Grapevine can get pretty large but I have been pleasantly surprised by how few hang out by the dam. The fishing has been pretty good for me across the board but PK has been better.
 

EGalvTex

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Apr 5, 2002
Messages
34
Re: YOUR LAKE - SOLD! (i hope this pisses you off)

This sounds like an easy way for the U.S.A.C.E to outsource what they believe is a hassle. The hope of getting through their governmental red tape would take years and miracle. The best way to approach it would be to organize a group of those affected and contact the city of Grapevine as a whole (probably at City Council) and propose an alternative fee schedule. Keep cool, fights dig heels in further. Best of Luck!
 

gbillingsly

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Nov 2, 2002
Messages
34
Re: YOUR LAKE - SOLD! (i hope this pisses you off)

I have recieved an e-mail from the City of Grapevine and been made aware that the Corp also leased ramps to the City of Trophy Club on Lake Grapevine, and the City of Lewisville and the Colony on Lake Lewisville.<br /><br />There goes the RECIPROSITY! Is the Corp doing this ALL OVER THE STATE? Why?<br /><br />Frankly, the fees are something I am going to work on with the City - but we need to have this overturned through the Corp ---or we will regret this even more in years to come. Please help by notifying anyone and everyone about this.<br /><br />These cities are already getting huge tax revenues because of the properties that sit on these lakes, as well as many other benefits. Also, each time we visit the lke we are buying gasoline, groceries, bait etc. in those cities.<br /><br />Why gouge out of town people? Didn't your federal tax dollars build the lake in the first place?
 

jeff_nicholas

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 2, 2002
Messages
174
Re: YOUR LAKE - SOLD! (i hope this pisses you off)

We had a similar situation here. Daily fee went from $6/day to $35/day. Annual pass went to $65/year. I was outraged 'cause I only used the lake 3 or 4 times a year and wasn't about to cough up $65. <br /><br />I finally bought the $65 pass, and guess what? Now there's way fewer people on the lake, so I go out more often.
 

gbillingsly

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Nov 2, 2002
Messages
34
Re: YOUR LAKE - SOLD! (i hope this pisses you off)

Good Point - increasing fee's does reduce access!<br /><br />The more disturbing issue is the Corp leasing these access points (launches) to the cities. Then the cities are discriminating against out-of-towners (my town also sits on the lake) with higher fees.<br /><br />Also - No reciprosity between launches - even on the same lake in this case. Some people do not have fast boats that can buzz from one end of the lake to the other and like to fish the whole lake.
 

Whaler Proud

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Feb 23, 2003
Messages
187
Re: YOUR LAKE - SOLD! (i hope this pisses you off)

I didn't realize my profile did not have my email address. Here it is: kincaid001@msn.com<br /><br />I live in Ft. Worth but am willing to write letters etc. Give me a shout.
 

gbillingsly

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Nov 2, 2002
Messages
34
Re: YOUR LAKE - SOLD! (i hope this pisses you off)

Anyone wanting send letters of support to the cause of preventing the leasing of our public boat ramps by the Corp of Engineers, please feel free to e-mail me at gbillingsly@netzero.net<br /><br />I have notified our senate, texas representatives, and local representatives - but this ONE MAN PAC isn't going to be enough.<br /><br />If your not fishing - you will hopefully be emailing everyone you know.
 

Whaler Proud

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Feb 23, 2003
Messages
187
Re: YOUR LAKE - SOLD! (i hope this pisses you off)

I am giving this a bump and adding an update.<br /><br />Greg has been doing a fantastic job organizing a PAC to deal with this privatization. It is called "Citizens Against Recreation Privatization" (CARP) and his effort is beginning to produce some positive results.<br /><br />This Corps policy does not effect just lakes in Texas, it involves all Corps lakes nationwide and seems to be filtering over to the Park Service as well.
 

gbillingsly

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Nov 2, 2002
Messages
34
Re: YOUR LAKE - SOLD! (i hope this pisses you off)

Thanks Whaler Proud. Here below is another article which references more links and references for those of you fishermen and boaters that want to ensure your children will be able to enjoy our parks and lakes without pulling out the mastercard. FEEL FREE TO COPY AND PASTE THIS ANYWHERE AND EVERYWHERE. WE NEED TO GET THE WORD OUT. YOU MAY E-MAIL ME AND I WILL PUT YOUR NAME ON MY MEMBER/E-MAIL UPDATE LIST. GBILLINGSLY@NETZERO.NET<br />*************************<br />This Land is Your Land, This Land is My Land<br /><br />We all assume that this song rings true for today, tomorrow and for our children’s tomorrows. If you have been to a Corp of Engineer Lake or Forest Service Lands recently you will find that this is changing. Americans are now being charged to enter our public lands, and the proceeds appear to go primarily to governing bodies and private entities for law enforcement that ultimately keeps these fees and access licenses in check. <br /><br />Can you remember when going out to the State Park or Corp Lake meant getting away from the hustle and bustle of city life? Do you enjoy going out to enjoy the undeveloped natural setting that these lands offer? Well that’s too bad, because your government has adopted new policies that are privatizing and commercializing the shorelines and public parks that your tax dollars built. <br /><br />Your government has targeted these public lands and waterways as "Reservoirs of Opportunity", which ultimately employ commercialization and privatization schemes aimed at setting up profit centers that implement a new "pay for play" philosophy. Some of the programs are dubbed: FEE DEMONSTRATION PROJECT(s), RECREATION PARTNERSHIP INITIATIVES, and RECREATION AREA MODERNIZATION PROGRAMS, and REINVENTION LABORATORIES.<br /><br />ANOTHER MORE SUBTLE METHOD they are using to give away your rights to these lands is through "lease arrangements". These new leases ultimately circumvent our public law that dictates these lands are open to all Americans equally. <br /><br />These leases DO NOT HONOR the GOLDEN ACCESS, GOLDEN AGE, or GOLDEN EAGLE - ANNUAL CORP PASS PROGRAMS. These lease arrangements allow entities to charge whatever they feel is reasonable without any formal pre-approval process. The "real estate" laws also sidestep public law and allow for DISCRIMINATORY PRICING, which they call "differential pricing".<br /><br />The lease arrangements allow for commercial development of our wilderness and shorelines. These developments include clearing away the natural habitat to replace it with hotels, concessions, ball - parks, and other urban activities - ALL WITH A PRICE TAG.<br /><br />North Texas<br /><br />Grapevine Lake: Gaylord Entertainment partners with Corp of Engineers and City of Grapevine to build a monstrosity of a hotel right on the shoreline of Grapevine Lake. The public boat launch on that cove is closed. The proceeds go back into the General Fund of the Treasury – and do not help with upkeep dollars for the lake. <br /><br />City of Grapevine, City of Trophy Club, and Marinas International assumed leases of ALL the boat launches, parks and campsites on the south side of the lake LIMITING ACCESS and INCREASING FEES. Fees for launching a boat are increased to 300% of previous Corp of Engineer fees. The new fee schedule DISCRIMINATES against non-residents by charging inflated access fees. Annual Corp of Engineers Passes, Golden Age Passes, and Golden Access Passes - NOT HONORED. Plans are to build concessions, ballparks and other services that are not needed on the shoreline. We can expect another price tag for entering the parks to follow. <br /><br />Lewisville Lake: The City of Lewisville, City of the Colony, City of Highland Village, City of Hickory Creek, City of Oak Point, City of Little Elm, Pier 121 Marina, <br /><br />Assumed over 75% of the lakes boat launch and park operations. They have INCREASED FEES, and most of them are DISCRIMINATING against non-residents by charging inflated access fees. Annual Corp of Engineers access passes are NOT HONORED.<br /><br />Joe Pool Lake: City of Grand Prairie assumes boat launch leases and INCREASE FEES by as much as 333%. DISCRIMINATES against non-residents by charging inflated access fees. Annual Corp of Engineer Passes - NOT HONORED.<br /><br />Keep Posted as more information comes in about these other lakes that are slotted for development and commercialization: THIS IS JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG!<br /><br />Lake Sakakawea, ND<br /> Rathburn Lake, IA<br /> Lavon Lake, TX<br /> <br />Conchas Lake, NM<br /> Perry Lake, KS<br /> Bardwell Lake, TX<br /> <br />Fort Peck Lake, MT<br /> Lake Cumberland, KY<br /> Center Hill Lake, TN<br /> <br />Kinzua Lake, PA<br /> Raystown Lake, PA<br /> Lake Lanier, GA<br /> <br />Lake Kaweah, CA<br /> Kaskaskia River Watershed<br /> Skiatook Lake, Oklahoma<br /> <br />Youghiogheny River Lake, PA<br /> Lake Ouachita, AR<br /> <br />Check out: <br /> http://www.wildwildernss.com <br /> http://www.freeourforest.org <br /><br />Greg Billingsly<br />Citizens Against Recreation Privatization<br />1217 Woodsey Court, Southlake, TX 76092<br />(817) 808-8970
 

riptide116

Seaman
Joined
Feb 15, 2004
Messages
65
Re: YOUR LAKE - SOLD! (i hope this pisses you off)

so whats happining now with that,shure would not like that form of government up here in the Northwest where everyone seems to worship the all mighty dollar
 

gbillingsly

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Nov 2, 2002
Messages
34
Re: YOUR LAKE - SOLD! (i hope this pisses you off)

Just more of the same. It's moving towards privatization of our wilderness and lakes all across the country- and not just Corp of Engineer properties.<br /><br />New Zealand entered this game over 8 years ago and it has been a dismal failure. Only the very wealthy (top 10%) benefited from privatization of the commons.<br /><br />In fact, I just got word that the Corp of Engineers has covened a committee with the sole responsiblity to implement recreation fees nationwide. Not just fees for boat ramps - ENTRANCE FEES. What is it worth to go eat your lunch at the lake?? <br /><br />They wont get a penny from me. I feel as if they are stealing our American heritage right out of our hands!!
 

gsbodine

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 4, 2004
Messages
346
Re: YOUR LAKE - SOLD! (i hope this pisses you off)

hey greg,<br />i just saw this and spend a great deal of time on corps lakes in GA and SC. in fact, they're about the only places I go now. where can I get more info on what's going on with this? the website links above don't work for me. is that email you have listed above there still valid for requesting updates and such?
 

Elmer Fudge

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
1,881
Re: YOUR LAKE - SOLD! (i hope this pisses you off)

I fish at lake lewisville,i launch at the hickory creek public ramps, $3.00 per day and no waiting to launch. weekends are another matter,I like to put in around 6:00am and be back at the docks by noon, before all the loonies and wackos show up.<br />if you go on weekdays, you'll have the whole lake pretty much to yourself.
 

kd6nem

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 25, 2003
Messages
576
Re: YOUR LAKE - SOLD! (i hope this pisses you off)

Greg,<br />I will send you an e-mail with all the info- put me on the list!<br /><br />On the whole, privatization CAN be a good thing in many areas. But this comes from the book of how NOT to do it! Besides, a municipality running a business for profit??? Governments running a business? Sounds about like the US Postal Service to me. Maybe worse. Combine the bureacratic "I don't care" attitude that too often is seen in government employees (I KNOW not ALL have that mindset, OK!?), the guarantee of unlimited red tape and hassle, and the desire of local politicians to find more cash and you wind up with a very ugly and disappointing picture.<br /><br />This is NOT in the spirit of public use/public benefit that was intended when these areas were designated.<br /><br />Most unlikely, but wouldn't it be great if another (user based) group came in by stealth and outbid the city in 6 months, and was able to keep the contract because so much more was put back into the area's infrastructure instead of going into municipal coffers? If I lived in your area I'd be looking to see what it would take to setup a nonprofit foundation.
 

alderman

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 11, 2004
Messages
116
Re: YOUR LAKE - SOLD! (i hope this pisses you off)

Same thing has been going on hear in Missouri since late 70's. Smithville Lake, Blue Sprngs Lake, and Longview Lake. All three built with tax dollers by COE for so called flood control projects. When completed all leased to respective counties, Smithville charges $25.00 to launch a boat for one day. They also have annual permit.<br />Lets see I paid to build it (also got paid to work on it) and when I want to use it I pay again.<br />go figure<br />Ray
 

red10

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Dec 11, 2003
Messages
175
Re: YOUR LAKE - SOLD! (i hope this pisses you off)

I think if it were me i'd get the hell out of there, paying those prices is a crock. Maybe people won't pay these prices, but more than likely they will because money doesn't matter, you need to get a boycott started, paying these prices now a day for houses, cars, boats is terrible but we are the ones who pay it. sorry i had to vent a little
 

rwidman

Lieutenant
Joined
May 27, 2004
Messages
1,396
Re: YOUR LAKE - SOLD! (i hope this pisses you off)

If you are a member of BoatUS this would be something that they might be interested in pursuing. They seem to have a lot of political influence.
 
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