Wiring a dash panel

[produceguy]

I have been restoring my 88 mach 1 Challenger and thought it was time to clean up and check all the wiring.
I pulled the gauge panel and and gauges. I labeled all the wiring on were it was to be placed when reasembeld.
I pulled all the pop out fuses, labeled the wiring their also.
In the process some labeling fell off and now I am lost. I found a chart on the color codes and have been following it but Im still haveing trouble.
I have figured out alot execpt when I try to hook up the toggle and the pop out fuse for the curtisy light it pegs out my gauges (except the volt gauge) and no lights work.
Cig lighter doesnt want to work either nor does the trim gauge.
I really know nothing about electric work and I am struggling with this.
Heres a pic of my panel. Hope it will clarify any questions.
http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h473/produceguy2/P1010325.jpg?t=1294546928

 

[solar7647]

Re: Wiring a dash panel

It sounds like you have a short. Your hot wire should enter one side of the switch, then the other side of the switch should run to the fuse. The other end of the fuse should then run to the light and the other side of the light should run to the neg circuit of the battery.

It may help to post pic of the wiring it self as well as the schematic for the engine. The wiring of the helm will depend on the engine make and model as well as the year. this will also help trouble shoot.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Wiring a dash panel

No -- the fuse comes first. Then the switch, then the load (accessory). Here is a diagram of a typical instrument panel. Delete the gauges you don't have, and insert any you do have. WARNING: Color codes in this diagram are not standard. They were chosen for visibility on the forum.

Here is a diagram of a simple circuit. Replace the light with any other accessory you may have.

Or more simply --

If you have a NAV/ANCHOR switch there are two ways to wire it. You need to tell us what type of switch you have. Answer is either ON-OFF-ON with three terminals or six terminals.

 

[produceguy]

Re: Wiring a dash panel

It is a on off on, it runs gauge lights,bow lights and cuddy light. It has 6 post onthe back of it.I will post pics of the swith and the fuse and gauges after work today. Thank you for helping,

 

[jhebert]

Re: Wiring a dash panel

If you see a variation in the indicators on gauges occurring when you apply power to a lighting circuit, this is an indication that the ground circuit for the gauges has a problem. The cold lamp filaments were probably supplying a ground for the gauges. When you apply power to the lamp circuit you affect the gauge circuit.

Check the ground wiring associated with the gauges. Given the symptoms you describe, this is the first place to look for a problem.

 

[solar7647]

Re: Wiring a dash panel

It is a on off on, it runs gauge lights,bow lights and cuddy light. It has 6 post onthe back of it.I will post pics of the swith and the fuse and gauges after work today. Thank you for helping,

With that switch you have 4 circuits. The two center posts are were your hot from the battery comes into it. Each of the four outer post will go to a light. Now when the switch is in its center position all the circuits will be off. When you flip the switch up it will turn on the circuits of the top two post and in the down position it turns on the circuits of the bottom to posts. I drew a little diagram below, but having all of those lights on one switch causes the problem that you cant turn on the cuddy light with out turning your nav lights off. I would put the nav lights on there own switch.

 

[produceguy]

Re: Wiring a dash panel

Its a 4.3 mercruser with a alpha 1 gen 1

Thanks guys,I will start with the grounds.Heres some pics. Maybe yall will see somthing I dont and the diagrams will sure help, thanks.
http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h473/produceguy2/th_P1010376.jpg
http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h473/produceguy2/th_P1010382.jpg
http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h473/produceguy2/th_P1010374-1.jpg

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Wiring a dash panel

Solars diagram is quite wrong and here is why:

1) Below is the correct way to wire a six terminal switch for Nav/Anchor lights. Solars diagram provides for ONLY the NAV or ONLY the ANCHOR light to be on. That is wrong and regulations indicate that underway BOTH must be on. In his diagram the ANCHOR light won't be on with the switch in the NAV position. With the anchor light on and bow light off, that tells oncoming vessels that you are not moving.

2) In that configuration you cannot operate the Nav and Anchor lights "legally". Why? Because at anchor, ONLY the stern light must be on. Under way BOTH must be on. That can't happen with this setup. This is also why a three terminal ON-OFF-ON switch needs a diode and six terminal does not.

3) Cuddy interior lights need a separate INTERIOR light switch totally separated from the NAV/ANC system. Connected as shown in Solars diagram, they would only be on when at anchor since the bow lights would be off at that time. Seems to me you just might want cuddy or courtesy lights on whether you are under way or at anchor - hence a separate switch.

4) Instrument panel lights are powered from the NAV light side of the switch since you don't need the gauges lit up at anchor.

 

[produceguy]

Re: Wiring a dash panel

Silvertip, That is how my lights worked.I could run bow and anchor light at the same time or toggle down and turn one off. Yes, I do have a courtisy toggle but with the origanal wiring or the po didnt have anything hooked to it. I will run the cuddy lights and that toggle. I had a couple of hours to mess with it today and made a little progress. Found a disconected ground. Wired it and gauges dont peg.(GREAT)
Still cant seem to get the bow light to work but I got the anchor light and cuddy lights to work, not sure how that happened yet.
It seems as if I hooked up the cuddy lights to a power source that is either not grounded because the darn things wont go off now. They only dim when Im in off position. Found two relays that are disconnected, what do I need relays for?I should just rewie the hole darn thing.
I am getting very discouraged.

 

[solar7647]

Re: Wiring a dash panel

Solars diagram is quite wrong and here is why:

1) Below is the correct way to wire a six terminal switch for Nav/Anchor lights. Solars diagram provides for ONLY the NAV or ONLY the ANCHOR light to be on. That is wrong and regulations indicate that underway BOTH must be on. In his diagram the ANCHOR light won't be on with the switch in the NAV position. With the anchor light on and bow light off, that tells oncoming vessels that you are not moving.

2) In that configuration you cannot operate the Nav and Anchor lights "legally". Why? Because at anchor, ONLY the stern light must be on. Under way BOTH must be on. That can't happen with this setup. This is also why a three terminal ON-OFF-ON switch needs a diode and six terminal does not.

3) Cuddy interior lights need a separate INTERIOR light switch totally separated from the NAV/ANC system. Connected as shown in Solars diagram, they would only be on when at anchor since the bow lights would be off at that time. Seems to me you just might want cuddy or courtesy lights on whether you are under way or at anchor - hence a separate switch.

4) Instrument panel lights are powered from the NAV light side of the switch since you don't need the gauges lit up at anchor.

In the post that explains what was hooked to the switch the anchor light was not listed. He listed gauge light, bow light and cuddy light, thus i did not add the anchor light to it, so the diagram was right with the information provided. I also suggested the nav lights be on their own switch considering having the bow, gauge and cuddy light on one switch causes the issue that the nav lights will need turned off every time the cuddy light is on.

 

[solar7647]

Re: Wiring a dash panel

Silvertip, That is how my lights worked.I could run bow and anchor light at the same time or toggle down and turn one off. Yes, I do have a courtisy toggle but with the origanal wiring or the po didnt have anything hooked to it. I will run the cuddy lights and that toggle. I had a couple of hours to mess with it today and made a little progress. Found a disconected ground. Wired it and gauges dont peg.(GREAT)
Still cant seem to get the bow light to work but I got the anchor light and cuddy lights to work, not sure how that happened yet.
It seems as if I hooked up the cuddy lights to a power source that is either not grounded because the darn things wont go off now. They only dim when Im in off position. Found two relays that are disconnected, what do I need relays for?I should just rewie the hole darn thing.
I am getting very discouraged.

If the PO changed the wires or added things it will be alot easier to just start from scratch. You can get the schematics for the engine that will tell you all you need to know. I rebuilt my boat last year and there were a ton of unused wires because of the PO added things and took stuff out. Plus it gives you the chance to clean everything up and organize it.

 

[produceguy]

Re: Wiring a dash panel

Yes my fault, sorry guys.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Wiring a dash panel

Solar, sorry to disagree and I understand the unmarked circle represents the anchor light. Fact is, your lights cannot work as regulations require wired the way you show them. You can run one or the other but not both. The internals on that switch are such that the three terminals on each side are entirely separate. In the up postion, the center and upper terminal on each side are connected. In the down position, the center and lower terminal on each side are connected. In the center, nothing is connected. If the switch is toggled up, both sides toggle up and therefore the anchor light cannot work. Similarly, if the switch is toggled down you lose the gauge and bow light.

 

[solar7647]

Re: Wiring a dash panel

Solar, sorry to disagree and I understand the unmarked circle represents the anchor light. Fact is, your lights cannot work as regulations require wired the way you show them. You can run one or the other but not both. The internals on that switch are such that the three terminals on each side are entirely separate. In the up postion, the center and upper terminal on each side are connected. In the down position, the center and lower terminal on each side are connected. In the center, nothing is connected. If the switch is toggled up, both sides toggle up and therefore the anchor light cannot work. Similarly, if the switch is toggled down you lose the gauge and bow light.

Yes I understand how the switch works and also said in that post that you would run into the issue that you would be unable to toggle the cuddy lights on because it would in return shut the nav lights off. I also didnt put the anchor light in it at all the unmarked circle just represnets any load that may be conected. I was only dealing with the things listed in the PO post about what it controls. Haveing rebuilt my boat and comletely re-wiring several others i know that people just pull wires and hook up their extras to anything so it can be complete mess and I realy didnt want to assume that the switch was wired corectly in the first place.

 

[produceguy]

Re: Wiring a dash panel

Good news guys, The cuddy lights are hooked up to the on/off battery switch. I hooked up the dash lights to the curtisy switch to get them off the toggle with anchor/navy.Dash is the only lights hooked up to that toggle.
This is were it gets strange. Two gray wires(one to bow and one to anchor, i think).With the two grays connected to the on/off/on switch I get nothing. With one gray hooked up to toggle and the other grounded both lights turn on.
I cant find any other wires that would go to those lights.
I am connecting the dash and lights as show in silvertips diagram but in order to do the navy/anchor I need another wire.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Wiring a dash panel

The bow and stern lights each have only two wires. One is hot and one is ground. The bow and stern ground wires obviously get connected to ground. The hot wires CANNOT be combined on a single switch terminal as both would be on anytime the switch is on. This is NOT correct wiring. As was explained several times in this thread, at anchor, ONLY the stern light must be on so it is back to either of two diagrams I provided. That is the ONLY way you can make those two lights work properly using a three terminal or six terminal ON-OFF-ON switch.

 

[produceguy]

Re: Wiring a dash panel

Yes,I understand both lights have a hot and a ground and I also undestand both hot wires cannot be connected to a single post.
What Im trying to explain is that their are two gray wires under the dash. The grounds to both lights are connected.Back to the grays. If I follow your diagram for a on/off/on switch and connect the two gray wires. I get nothing. Now if I pull 1 gray wire off its post and ground it and flip toggle both lights turn on with only that one gray hot wire connected.
I think I have to figure this out myself but THANKS ANY WAY.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Wiring a dash panel

Rather than just hooking up wires and hoping for the best, why not determine exactly WHAT the two gray wires are for. Just because there are two gray wires does not mean they are both for the nav and anchor lights. Remove the sockets and check the wire colors for both lights. Then and only then can you be sure the two gray wires are or are not for the lights. Who knows how the previous owner wired things. You should also obtain and learn how to use a multi-tester ($10 - $15 at Lowes/Home Depot). It is an essential tool for electrical work.

 

[solar7647]

Re: Wiring a dash panel

Yes,I understand both lights have a hot and a ground and I also undestand both hot wires cannot be connected to a single post.
What Im trying to explain is that their are two gray wires under the dash. The grounds to both lights are connected.Back to the grays. If I follow your diagram for a on/off/on switch and connect the two gray wires. I get nothing. Now if I pull 1 gray wire off its post and ground it and flip toggle both lights turn on with only that one gray hot wire connected.
I think I have to figure this out myself but THANKS ANY WAY.

I know its kind of a pain considering the time you have spent but I think your best bet is to run new ground and hot wires from your anchor and bow light. It sounds like they are crossed some place and tracking down can be a real pain. New wires will allow you to just pull the old ones and will get it finished must faster.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Wiring a dash panel

I think I have to figure this out myself but THANKS ANY WAY.

Yup, sounds like you need to do some wire tracing and trouble shooting as nobody really knows what the PO did to the wiring of the boat. Who knows, maybe the guy daisy chained the nav/anc lights all together with only grey wire, 2 wires control both lights. It's not right, but the lights would come on.