Troller Questions

[augnmike]

I just got back from a two day trip to AZ bowfishing for carp and tilapia. Fun trip but I broke my 10 year old Motorguide troller on the first day and luckily a local shop had the pinion gear that I destroyed.

My question is why does my troller (43 lb thrust foot control bow mount original MG) run through two fully charged batteries in about 7 hours? The boat is a Tracker Pro 175 Series bass boat. I have to run it at full speed the whole time in order to move at a pace that doesn't make you nuts. I assume it's not enough motor for my rig. I want to upgrade to a 24v system troller, I want to be able to run at a good clip without running out of juice before the day is over. Also I would like to have one of the new foot controllers that has a thiner longer cable and lower profile so I can move it around the deck easier.

Let me break down my questions:

1. Is my motor too small and that is why I run through batteries so bad?
2. How much more powerful a troller do I need to get a full 10 hrs of fishing in without runnig out of batteries?
3. What trollers should I look at, should I get a 12/24 or just a 24 system?
4. Can I do it for $700?

Lots of questions but I am new to the boat shooting thing as of last year.

 

[John_S]

Re: Troller Questions

I just got back from a two day trip to AZ bowfishing for carp and tilapia. Fun trip but I broke my 10 year old Motorguide troller on the first day and luckily a local shop had the pinion gear that I destroyed.

My question is why does my troller (43 lb thrust foot control bow mount original MG) run through two fully charged batteries in about 7 hours? The boat is a Tracker Pro 175 Series bass boat. I have to run it at full speed the whole time in order to move at a pace that doesn't make you nuts. I assume it's not enough motor for my rig. I want to upgrade to a 24v system troller, I want to be able to run at a good clip without running out of juice before the day is over. Also I would like to have one of the new foot controllers that has a thiner longer cable and lower profile so I can move it around the deck easier.

Let me break down my questions:

1. Is my motor too small and that is why I run through batteries so bad?
2. How much more powerful a troller do I need to get a full 10 hrs of fishing in without runnig out of batteries?
3. What trollers should I look at, should I get a 12/24 or just a 24 system?
4. Can I do it for $700?

Lots of questions but I am new to the boat shooting thing as of last year.

1. Could be old, weak, not enough reserve capacity batteries, poor connections, worn motor, along with too small and type of troller.

2. I think you would want to step-up to a 24V system, but more power also means need larger more reserve batteries. Going from 12 to 24 helps there. Look at ones with maximizer type circuits.

4. An entry level 24V cable control, with batteries and wiring, that might be a bit too tight of a budget.

 

[augnmike]

Re: Troller Questions

I was thinking around $700 for the troller only. With my current system with 43# I need to be on full power the whole time in order to cover the water I want to cover. I am assuming that with something mayber around 60 lbs and 24v I could go much longer on less than full power for my size boat. It that correct?

 

[John_S]

Re: Troller Questions

A MK Maxxum 70 will cost you about another $100, depending on shaft length. Find one on sale and might make your clip level. The MK Edge is within your price range put it does not have a maximizer.

I am not sure how fast you want to go, but 3-4mph at max is what I get with a 45lb on 14' alum.

 

[augnmike]

Re: Troller Questions

We do troll pretty fast to cover ground looking for fish to shoot. What is a maximizer?

 

[John_S]

Re: Troller Questions

It is an infinite speed control that also helps conserve battery power at the lower speed settings. You can find some more info in MK and MG sales lit.

http://www.minnkotamotors.com/advantage/freshwater.aspx


http://motorguide.com/store/product/freshwater-use/varimax/features

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Troller Questions

Maximizers help with energy consumption ONLY at speeds less than wide open. At wide open speed settings electric motors of the same thrust all consume the same power. It is just the way electrics work. If you need to run 3 - 4 MPH for 7 hours you will not do that with an electric motor unless you have a boat load of batteries. Here is why!

FACTS (Using a 24 volt, 70# thrust motor):
1) Current draw on the above motor is 42 amps at full speed and there is no way to predict what that number is at less than full speed since the boat size, load, water conditions etc. all impact that. You can install an AMP METER (ammeter) to actually measure it if wish.
2) Battery size (capacity) determines how long the motor will run at any speed.
3) A typical group 27 deep cycle will have a reserve capacity (expressed as xxx minutes @ 23 amps). The reserve minutes will be in 150 - 170 range or roughly 2-1/2 hours).
4) So a 42 amp draw is roughly twice the reserve capacity rating spec (23 amps) so likewise, those numbers get cut in half.
5) The lesson here is that the above motor at its fastest speed would kill the batteries in a little over an hour so max run time would be in the neighborhood of two hours at lesser speeds.
6) You could parallel two more batteries to get you back to four hours. I see no way you can operate 5, 7, or anywhere near 10 hours at 3 - 4 MPH on any motor.
7) At those trolling speeds you need to be using a gas kicker. You are pushing a lot of water at those speeds and that takes power.

 

[augnmike]

Re: Troller Questions

ST, thanks for that info I am not really good with the electricity stuff. My thought was that right now I am running a 43 lb motor at full speed so if I go much higher in power say 65-70 lb I wouldn't need full speed to attain the same speed in the smaller motor. Am I thinking right about that? Also I am currently getting about 3 hour or a little more on a battery and I am carrying two of them so I guess I could always add a third one and be at 9 hours to so.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Troller Questions

You are missing the point. A 60 - 70# motor requires two batteries in series to provide 24 volts. While it is a little more efficient than a single battery on your 43# motor, that bigger motor requires twice the batteries to achieve slightly longer run time. You can't add just one more, you need to add two more to increase run time so you now have a total of four and you still will not reach 9 hours run time (at least at 3 - 4 mph).

 

[augnmike]

Re: Troller Questions

Sorry I am so hard headed on this but I am still confused. I have a 43 lb MG TM right now that is 12v. I run one battery at a time and each one gives me about 3 hrs run time on full speed (I don't know how fast it is but it is maxed out). I therefore get about 6 hrs of fishing time. If I buy another batt and use it like I am right now that would be three total at 3 hrs each for nine hours of fishing.

As for the 24v system are you saying with the set up we are talking about that I will get less time than I am getting now out of two deep cycle batteries (I know I need two at the same time on a 24v)

 

[John_S]

Re: Troller Questions

Maximizers help with energy consumption ONLY at speeds less than wide open. At wide open speed settings electric motors of the same thrust all consume the same power. It is just the way electrics work. If you need to run 3 - 4 MPH for 7 hours you will not do that with an electric motor unless you have a boat load of batteries. Here is why!

FACTS (Using a 24 volt, 70# thrust motor):
1) Current draw on the above motor is 42 amps at full speed and there is no way to predict what that number is at less than full speed since the boat size, load, water conditions etc. all impact that. You can install an AMP METER (ammeter) to actually measure it if wish.
2) Battery size (capacity) determines how long the motor will run at any speed.
3) A typical group 27 deep cycle will have a reserve capacity (expressed as xxx minutes @ 23 amps). The reserve minutes will be in 150 - 170 range or roughly 2-1/2 hours).
4) So a 42 amp draw is roughly twice the reserve capacity rating spec (23 amps) so likewise, those numbers get cut in half.
5) The lesson here is that the above motor at its fastest speed would kill the batteries in a little over an hour so max run time would be in the neighborhood of two hours at lesser speeds.
6) You could parallel two more batteries to get you back to four hours. I see no way you can operate 5, 7, or anywhere near 10 hours at 3 - 4 MPH on any motor.
7) At those trolling speeds you need to be using a gas kicker. You are pushing a lot of water at those speeds and that takes power.

It sounds like you have an actual current draw for the 70lb/24V motor. I was using a "rough" rule of thumb: 1A per lb thrust for 12V, 1/2A per lb thrust for 24V. So I was comparing 43A to 35A, for my comment on slight increase in capacity.