Towing problem

hodgejr

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
46
Hey folks, first time here.<br /><br />I think I really screwed up on my choice of a tow truck. I have a Bayliner 16' to pull. I had a Kia, which worked but I knew I would have to upgrade very soon. So I got me a Mazda Tribute DX SUV. I got a reaaallly good deal on a 4-cyl model with manual transmission. <br /><br />But I think I made a reaaally bad choice. As soon as I pulled my boat out of the water, I noticed a bad smell coming from within the car. My clutch! In order to get the 4-cyl to pull the 1700 lbs load out of the water, I had to milk the clutch. Now I'm worried I will eventually burn it. <br /><br />It's too late to return the truck, I'm stuck with it. Is there any modification that will help my situation? I do know that there are no transmission coolers for manual shifts. If I don't remedy this problem I will burn my clutch for sure.... <br /><br />dooohhh!!!!
 

Navigator

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 6, 2001
Messages
517
Re: Towing problem

I'm not sure if your Mazdais a front wheel drive or not.<br />I had the same problem with a 93 Ford Ranger 3 liter 5 Speed trying to pull a 16 ft Bayliner. The truck would "burn some clutch" at the boat ramp. The weight really dogged the truck down. What I finally did was have the gear ratio changed in the rear axle. I changed from a 3.54 to a 3.73 ratio. It was only two new parts, the new differential gear, and the new plastic speedometer gear. It cost about $300 in parts and laber for the swap. <br />What I got was gobs of pulling power and the engine wasn't straining so much. <br />What I lost was top end and a bit of fuel economy. The truck was geared about 20% lower so on the highway at 70 I was turning 3000 rpm instead of 2500. <br />I worried about longevity of the switch, but the truck is still in my driveway and now has 150k miles on it and still runs like a top.<br />Nav
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hodgejr

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
46
Re: Towing problem

Wow! That sounds like a great idea! Didn't even cross my mind, tell you the truth. However, you mentioned you had a 3.0 engine...mine is 2.0, so already you had a lot more power. How much HP is yours, by the way? Mine is 130, and i do believe it's front-wheel drive.<br /><br />But i will be doing a lot of homework before taking this problem head on. Have you any other suggestions? Somebody said a trailor-extension might relieve some of weight, but I'm not sure....<br /><br />Thanks again...and by the way, takin the boat to Sanibel in 2 wks, can't wait!
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Towing problem

Hi, Hodge, and welcome to the best boater's site on the net.<br /><br />Been there. Bought racing clutch disc for my Toyota Hi-Lux, which helped some, but not enough. Ahh, memories.<br /><br />If you had gotten the V6, automatic 4X4 Tribute you would be happy with your tow-er, but you would have spent several grand more. I guess you knew that, but maybe some readers didn't.<br /><br />A higher diff. ratio sounds like a good idea, if you can do that to a FWD without breaking the bank. It might be cheaper to trade it up for a near-new 4X4 V6 auto tribute or Ford Escape. <br /><br />A note for other readers: a small, low HP, pickup or utility usually can't pull its rated load up a steep ramp UNLESS it is a 4X4 with a LOW RANGE. Then you can pull the whole lake up the ramp if you want to. It cost me many bux to learn that.<br /><br />What is the tow rating on the FWD Mazda?<br /><br />Red sky at night. . . <br />JB
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hodgejr

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
46
Re: Towing problem

Uhh...well, for mine, i believe the manual says 1000 lbs, but I'll confirm that as soon as head out to lunch. My combination trailer/boat is 1700 lbs. And, like i said, i believe it's FWD. Does that mean it'll cost more to do the diff. ration modification? And yes, the V6 4x4 was way out of my reach. But perhaps the automatic 4-cyl would have been better regardless.<br /><br />Bottom line is, no use figuring out what I could've or should've done, but make do with what I got...<br /><br />Would a trailer extension arm diminish the load on the truck, perhaps? My trailer tongue is really short.<br /><br />...and that racing clutch, how much is that???<br /><br />thanx for all your support!
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Towing problem

I would expect the ratio change to cost a lot more for the FWD than a simple live axle, and then I don't know that higher ratios are even available for the Tribute/Escape.<br /><br />Extending the tongue wouldn't help, but I have seen some pretty creative ways of getting trailers up slick ramps when the RWD tow vehicles couldn't get traction:<br /><br />1. Front hitch reciever. Reverse is always a higher ratio than 1st. Hitched to the front, the trailer is a lot easire to steer, too. If your Tribute can get traction that would work. Switch ends before launch and after load. If your wheels spin, then extend the trailer tongue so you can keep the wheels on fairly dry ground.<br /><br />2. Electric winch. Keep the tow at the top of the ramp and winch the trailer up to flat surface.<br /><br />Getting a reciever mounted up front would probably be a lot less than a winch and either would be less than a complete gear ratio change.<br /><br />Good luck.<br /><br />Red sky at night. . .<br />JB
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hodgejr

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
46
Re: Towing problem

It looks like I'm gonna have to get really creative here!
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<br /><br />Again, thanx for your support!!!
 

goof

Cadet
Joined
Aug 11, 2001
Messages
17
Re: Towing problem

Boy! These are truly great tips. Newbies like myself would never have thought about these solutions own our own. I'm sorry for you veterns having to learn the hard ways, but I'm greatful for your advice...saving us newbies money and headaches. I'm sure I speak for many people when I say, "Thank you for all your help!"<br />Later,<br />goof
 

hodgejr

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
46
Re: Towing problem

ok, just an update for y'all...looks like it's gonna work out!<br /><br />I decided i'm not gonna mess with the car afterall. My wife found at her job a boat catalog, and seems like she found some real cheap winches ($100-250) that can pull quite a load, and better yet, hook right on to the hitch ball. So it looks like i'll be pullin the whole trailer up the ramp with a winch, with my tow on level ground. <br /><br />A lotta work? Yup? Is it worth it? **** right, better than blowin my clutch every month! <br /><br />Lesson learned, do your homework first before rushin out and buyin!
 

Bob_VT

Moderator & Unofficial iBoats Historian
Staff member
Joined
May 19, 2001
Messages
26,046
Re: Towing problem

You might want to re-think that technology of pulling the laod with a winch. If you must get one with plenty of cable and double the line back by using a pully. I am not quite sure how you will support the front of the trailer while it is being winched? The small wheel (if equipped) on the jack is NOT made to support a rolling load. It just does not sound as if it would be safe.<br /><br />If I was in a situation like yours... I would consider a second tow vehicle such as an older used pick-up or 4 X 4. OR rent a docking slip. JB also had a very sound idea of front mounting a receiver which would also work.<br /><br />Please be careful.<br /><br />
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Bob
 

fone_man

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 8, 2001
Messages
701
Re: Towing problem

Here is the best solution to your problem......<br /><br />Give little "SUV" to wife to drive & go out & buy you a "truck"... used, whatever to pull your boat...<br /><br />If towing weight is 1K lbs then tongue weight is @ 100 lbs... you are overloading your tow vehicle, these units are basically "CARS" with Truck features... 2.0 litre 4 cyl is not strong enough to trailer this boat weight of 1700 lbs.<br /><br />Cut your losses now & trade up or you will pay down the road in repairs on this vehicle.<br /><br />I have always used a 4X4 in low to pull out & trailer boat. But finally decided that I didn't need 30K vehicle to pull boat, bought old Ford PickUp 300/6 cyl w/auto trans... for 1K... fixed up & now it pulls the boat... to the lake, down the ramp, up the ramp & home with no problem... I just don't know where you are going to use winch to pull boat out... I have never seen people on a ramp with that much patience...<br /><br />But what ever you do... check with your mechanic & see how much he charges for clutch disc replacement on you toy "SUV"... you will be suprised at the cost. Plus you will not be able to change ratio on TranAxle to make pulling out any easier... $$$ to performance difference just not there!!!<br /><br />Wishing you the best.......<br /><br /><br />------------------<br />"Keep It Between The Bouys" & "Good Luck"!!!<br /><br />fone_man
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Towing problem

Nice analysis Fone_man. Hodge, he is right about hurting your Tribute by towing almost double the tow rating, never mind launching and loading. FWD transaxles and clutches are very expensive to repair and don't tolerate the abuse that RWD and 4X4 systems do.<br /><br />Spend it now or spend it later.
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<br /><br />Red sky at night.<br />JB
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hodgejr

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
46
Re: Towing problem

I guess after having recieved so many replies to this question (and thanx for spending your time), one must filter out some, and the last one that belittled my "toy" car wasn't really what i was expecting, but no matter, it's a little "toy" i got, its a little "toy" I'll have to keep, and a lesson learned.
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<br /><br />thanx again
 

Ranger354

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Mar 1, 2001
Messages
207
Re: Towing problem

I have been in the same spot. Small chevy blazer with 5 spd. Always had to rely on parking brake on a steep ramp. This is not the best of situations. Remember throwing rocks under the back tires one time the brake started to slip. <br /><br />Reading thru the posts I never did see if your "Toy" as you call it, has 4 wheel drive.<br />If it does put the thing in low range and try it again. <br /><br />If you truck is too small to pull the boat out of the ramp, then it is too small to winch it up the ramp. Trust me on this one. Mounting a witch on the front is a good idea as long as you have some ass-end weight in your truck.<br /><br />SUVs are not always what the sales people tell you. Since the truck is here to stay, what about a smaller boat? :p
 

RIDEPATE

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 8, 2001
Messages
324
Re: Towing problem

i'm with others on this post,it's not good but your tow decision was bad, and theres really nothing you can do to make it better,with the money you will spend on your tribute if you keep pulling with it you can search around and find a cheap puller, i bought a 84 s-10 blazer 4x4 for 400.00 spent about 150.00 on minor repairs, and it gets me there and back and up the ramp with ease,so get to lookin there's something out there for ya.jim :eek:
 

goof

Cadet
Joined
Aug 11, 2001
Messages
17
Re: Towing problem

How big of a boat can a 95 s10 blazer (automatic) pull? Traction shouldn't be problem, I've got some great beefie tires.<br />later,<br />goof
 

Ranger354

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Mar 1, 2001
Messages
207
Re: Towing problem

A buddy has a 98 and he pulls his 21 foot ski boat with no problem. (trying not to sound like a jerk, but) an experenced tower can make the most out of any vehicle. I also owned a 80 model chevy luv truck that could pull anything but a goose neck. <br /><br />Remember to only pull what you can stop. Starting isn't the hard part, its when that idiot pulls out in front of you and the family. Keeping the rig from jackknifing or hitting the ditch is the hard part.
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Towing problem

This is beginning to sound like a debate on how much it is safe to exceed power ratings on boats.<br /><br />It is dangerous to exceed the tow rating on any vehicle, and in some states it is illegal. It is not just a matter of burning up drive train components, it is controlling and stopping the towed load without killing someone.<br /><br />In addition to MFG ratings (It just occurred to me that you may be risking a voided powertrain warranty, Hodge) most states require brakes on any towed package that weighs over 3000#, CA and ID require them on anything over 1500# and NY and OR anything over 1000#. Some mfgs rate their vehicles for towing with and without brakes. My ML320 is rated to tow 3000# without, or 5000# with brakes.<br />I currently tow about 1800#, without brakes.<br /><br />I am still shopping for an ideal trailer for Sunshine III and since we have had this discussion I think I am going to put brakes on it.<br /><br /><br /> :)
 

Bob_VT

Moderator & Unofficial iBoats Historian
Staff member
Joined
May 19, 2001
Messages
26,046
Re: Towing problem

All the "experienced" trailer towers know how to get just about anywhere but... Towing depends on the terrain and ramps that are to be used. I had an 84 Isuzu Pickup (aka chevy luv) and yes it did a fine job on towing as long as it was flat ground. I had to play the clutch a bit but it worked hard for the jobs it did. <br /><br />Experience is not a substitute for proper equipment. I am sure my lawn tractor could tow my boat but I would not do it. I still stand by the old addage "use the proper tool for the job".<br /><br />Drive safe.<br /><br />Bob ;)
 

Ranger354

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Mar 1, 2001
Messages
207
Re: Towing problem

Bob,<br /><br />Thats why I drive a 3/4 ton chevy 4x4. I can pull that goose neck now! :eek:
 
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