Tarps, outdoor storage, fuel

[SUNB15]

Im storing a boat outside in the northeast for the first time (previous one fit in garage) and have a few questions:

-im looking to get one tarp to cover the whole thing, right now it just has a built in canvas top over the rear deck that gets soaked and lets some rain drip through. With the canvas the rear has a shape that you could throw a tarp over without building any kind of frame, can I just do that? I realize snow might weigh it down but its rather sloped, 45 degrees maybe

-im trying to decide on the tarp size, figured Id just get a really big one so it covers boat and trailer and secure it with bricks on ground (dirt, possibly driveway). Would it be a better idea to measure the tarp exactly and just cover the boat not trailer, then run tie downs under the hull to tighten it? should the trailer be exposed like that + just cover vital parts with plastic bags?

-heard some things about tarp vs canvas, i realize a tarp needs ventilation (or just something to keep moisture out?) but i never saw a canvas full boat cover for 25'x8.6'x11' boat, besides wouldnt that let more moisture in from rain/snow than could evaporate without sun getting in?

-when does the boat need to be covered by temperature wise and when uncovered, i mean im sure it can breathe easier when its uncovered so theres no rush to do it while its still warm (only reason would be to protect from UVs, weather, etc) but then again I know almost freezing rain going in through canvas top/openings cant be good. The same applies for uncovering in spring- uncover as soon as gets a little warm or wait till ready to use?

-I assume cabin door should stay open under tarp to allow max circulation between deck+cabin?

Fuel:
-since I have a much larger tank now (60 gal vs old 10 gal that was easily accessible), is it safe to say that if the tank is filled 3/4 and stabilized properly the fuel will be usable in lets say 6 months? After reading up on how much the tank should be filled (only leaving room to allow expansion) its a bit of an investment to fill it up, wouldnt want to have to drain it in the spring. On my small outboard after stabilizing boat wouldnt always start in the spring on old fuel but started right up after fuel was changed...

thanks

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Tarps, outdoor storage, fuel

In the northeast you need to be very concerned about snow loading. Wet snow gets heavy. If you use the top as the only means of support I think you are asking for expensive trouble. Snow can cave in roofs that don't have enough pitch and your boat top certainly was not designed to support that kind of load. Using a plastic tarp requires that you install a small fan to keep air circulating beneath it. Condensation will ultimately form and you will have to deal with mold and mildew. There is nothing on the trailer that needs to be covered except for the tires but a good tire dressing will do nicely, or cut a plywood shield that can be slipped in place to protect them from UV rays. Bricks will not hold a large tarp down so you should use one that you can pass rope under the hull and fasten to the other side so it doesn't blow off in those "noreasters". You will also want to place an electric rodent repeller (yes they do work) inside (or a very hungry cat). As for fuel, treat the fuel, run the engine until you are sure treated fuel has entered the motor, and you will be good until spring. Top off the tank at that time and the fuel will be good to go. Timing for covering and uncovering is not important. Cover it while its still relatively warm and uncover when you feel the time is right in the spring.

 

[erie_guy]

Re: Tarps, outdoor storage, fuel

Silvertip hit most of the important items but I might add a few. Putting a tarp over the existing canvas will cause the canvas to wear at the "corners" because the wind will blow the tarp around (flap) and it will act like sandpaper to your canvas. The snow will probably not slide off the tarp (unless you have a very high ridge pole to give the tarp a good slope). Take down all your canvas, framework, and isenglass and store it in the cabin to protect it over the winter.

I store (cover) a 32' express each season with shrinkwrap and use at least 8 clam-shell ventilators to get sufficient air flow through the boat to prevent mildew and condensation. Make sure you open all hatches and interior doors to promote air flow and use a wet vacuum to remove all traces of water from the bilge and spaces along the keel. I have been successful in saving and reusing the same shrink wrap year after year. I am now into the second season on my current cover and the previous cover lasted four seasons. Shrinkwrap is my preferred method of storing the boat outside on my trailer. The initial install is about $375, but divide it over 4 years, and it is a good investment.

I use multiple straps under the boat/trailer to keep the cover positioned, but use hanging clorox bottles of water to keep "tension" on the cover. Removing and storing the cover is not difficult - but you do not want to cut the cover to remove it. Remove it by cutting the lower circumferential band, splicing in an additional length of strapping, and stretching the plastic to get it off the stern. Then pull it up over the boat and bow,fold nicely and save it until next season. Also save the support structure, strapping, and padding they used - for reinstalling the shrinkwrap. And have a roll of shrinkwrap tape to quickly repair any cuts, splits, or thinning you may find, or make, during reinstall.

I also have a door installed in the cover so I can perform boat projects during cold weather. I suggest you specify (if possible) the white shrinkwrap (instead of blue) so colors are not so "out-of wack" when you are under the cover. Hard to tell wiring colors without a flashlight with a blue cover. I usually leave the batteries in the boat and keep them on a trickle charger. I store next to my cottage -so I have quick access to the boat and no storage charges over the winter.

Sorry this got so long but I'm just killing time until next season. Enjoy your new boat !!

Norm (erie_guy)
Port Clinton, OH

 

[MrBigStuff]

Re: Tarps, outdoor storage, fuel

No water will come through a properly treated canvas cover. If yours leaks, it needs to be treated with a water repellant. My boat is covered all year long with a canvas cover. I treat it every fall with a water repellant. It has a gap at the stern to allow good ventilation. I do sweep the snow off of it after storms when it's deep enough to sag the canvas. The sun evaporates a lot of it and for the most part, the canvas is dry most of the time.

To be completely maintenance free, you need a covering that is slippery and sloped enough to shed the snow.

 

[jeeperman]

Re: Tarps, outdoor storage, fuel

checkout your local billboard advertising company.
The obsolete billboard vinyl makes excellent, long lasting tarps.
Some are quite large too.
Some are free for the taking, especially if you stumble upon a crew changing one out along the roadway.
The crew don't want to haul it back to the shop and stuff it in the dumpster.

 

[tommays]

Re: Tarps, outdoor storage, fuel

To give you and idea even with this much pitch you have to stay right on top of the snow Or you will be dong a mid-winter tarp change (we get almost 99% wet snow or it will be the next day when the sun comes out)

As far as size this is a 19' boat and the tarp is a 15' X 25' it closes it in on the ends nice BUT allows the sun to keep the in side real dry as the water vapor can get out


Tommays

 

[SUNB15]

Re: Tarps, outdoor storage, fuel

thanks guys, more info than i hoped for, time to do some measuring...

 

[jevery]

Re: Tarps, outdoor storage, fuel

 

[twostroke87]

Re: Tarps, outdoor storage, fuel

All of the above comments about the canvas seem alright, as long as it stays dry and doesn't blow off in the winter is what matters most.

Now on to why I am posting

Above comments I read "top off your tank.." This was appropriate back in the days when our fuel wasn't so heavily filled with alcohol. Now I know that the gas pumps say "contains 10% ethanol"...this may be true at some gas stations, but long story short, mercruiser/mercury did an independant study to find out exactly how much, on average, alcohol was in gasoline being served at your local gas station, and the results were mind blowing, average was 25% alcohol, with some stations hitting as high as 40%.

Now this being said you should know that alcohol is hydroscopic, as in it will attract and absorb water. Your boats gas tank is vented to the atmosphere. So in a sense your vent actually can act like a shop vacuum. Everyday when moisture forms from temperature changes in the atmosphere, your alcohol in your fuel will try to suck it into the tank.

Now I know you are staying you are going to stabilize your fuel, and this is great, it will keep the fuel from gumming up inside the engine, and it will somewhat prevent the alcohols corrosive effects on components while the engine sits, rubber hoses, fuel diaphragms, gaskets etc.

But Stabilizer does not and I repeat DOES NOT prevent you from getting water in your tank. It does nothing to keep this problem from happening.

The answer is easy, the less fuel you keep, the less alcohol, the less water. Its as simple as that. You should be storing your boat with somewhere betwee 1/8 and 1/4 tank, and stabilize that, run it through your engine. Next season fill your tank with fresh gas and on you go without a problem.

And if you are worried about condensation in the tank from it being so empty, that amount of water would probably add up to maybe a couple teaspoons. As compared too a gallon of water or two sitting in the bottom of your tank.

 

[mthieme]

Re: Tarps, outdoor storage, fuel

You will also want to place an electric rodent repeller (yes they do work) inside (or a very hungry cat).

Nothing beats a cat for rodents.
I had bought 4 of those electric rodent repellers for inside the house. They weren't effective at all for me.

Bees have been an issue for me in the spring.
Unwrap boat gingerly and have can of bee spray handy.

 

[ziggy]

Re: Tarps, outdoor storage, fuel

yer gettin some good advise....
here's my setup......

a closed bow hardtop.
i have a large beach ball on the bow (which ya can see), a small one in the middle of the hardtop (a new idea that i had not in th pic). tennis balls cut in half at the corners of the hardtop. a pole support w/ a triangle plastic plate at the top, mounted behind the hardtop. the cover is a breathable overtons cover bungeed to the trailer.
we get ice storms here in ne. i use a second cover if ice storms are predicted. let it ice storm on th outer cover. remove it and i've a cleaner one underneath.
this setup don't have enough slop in my opinion to leave alone all winter. i broom off anything above a inch on the cover in the winter. we usually get much more than a inch here too. sasincktly, this set up requires maint. over the winter... more slop would be better... in the pic. i'd be gettin ready to brush off the snow....
as for the fuel tank. top it off. to the top. air space is required for condensation to form. that's water. which drips into your fuel and settles to the bottom of the tank as water is heavier than fuel, where the fuel pic up is at, feeding your engine water to burn. which it won't.......

the rodents....... decon is available for dinner......

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Tarps, outdoor storage, fuel

Bees are an issue around here too, but not usually till later in the season. They show up around late July for some reason. Those that are around in the spring don't seem to nest in the boats or in direct contact with people. I have had bees built nests in the door jambs of my car overnight in mid to late summer.
They are finally just starting to go away about now to the point where I don't need to be concerned.

As far a fuel in the tank, I think it's a toss up between the amount of water absorbed by alcohol vs. water in the tank from condensation. I don't usually make a point of topping the tank, and I normally pull the fuel hose off and run the motor on a smaller tank, treated with stabilizer before winterizing. Then I lube the cylinders and change the lower unit oil. The fuel in the tank either gets left with a minor treatment of stabilizer or I just pump it out and use it elsewhere. I've been known to run the garden tractor or my yard car at the shop with it.

I also use a large green tarp, and I also don't seal it up tight. I made a tall center stand and use the upper windshield frame to support the tarp at a very steep angle. I also jack the tongue to the max to aid in drainage and to help keel snow from sticking. I also like to keep a light bulb lit in the boat, this dries the air inside and prevents any mildew and also keeps the tarp warmer than the outside are making the snow slide right off or melt. I've done this for years with excellent results.
I learned this from an old timer after complaining about how my rods and reels corroded when left below deck on my bigger boat years ago, he said adding a single 60 watt incandescent light bulb and fixture connected to shore power would prevent the corrosion. It works like a charm.
Just don't seal it up so tight that it creates a hot house effect under the tarp.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Tarps, outdoor storage, fuel

Also, If your boat is getting wet inside even during the summer months, you probably should be using a tarp year round, a contantly wet boat isn't any good no matter what the season is. It will only promote mold and wood rot and eventually get to the flotation foam.

 

[twostroke87]

Re: Tarps, outdoor storage, fuel

You might be fine with a full tank, you might not. But wit an empty tank you will be problem free in the spring. Your fuel pick up doesn't go all the way to the bottom of the tank, it stops a few inches above, so if you have a 60 gallon tank how much water do you think condensation is going to leave, not enough to spread 3 inches of water across the bottom of your tank thats for sure, when you fill it in the spring the small amount of water that has formed will disperse throughout the fuel until its spread so thin the fresh gas/alcohol will just absorb it. It will be burned off easily

 

[dingbat]

Re: Tarps, outdoor storage, fuel

Everyday when moisture forms from temperature changes in the atmosphere, your alcohol in your fuel will try to suck it into the tank.

And every day that moisture is reabsorbed back into the atmosphere by evaporation.

Set a pint of gasoline out on your porch in an open glass jar. Come back in a month and you will not find a jar full of water, you might not even find gasoline in the jar. It's evaporated

 

[twostroke87]

Re: Tarps, outdoor storage, fuel

We arent talking about a jar, we are talking about a 60 gallon most likely aluminum gas tank surrounded by foam and fiber glass, now you explain how water vapor that is attracted down a couple of feet of 3/4- 1 inch hose by 60 gallons of alcohol rich fuel, which then falls into the fuel and sinks to the bottom, gets evaporated away the next day magically, through the 2 feet of gasoline sitting on top of it? I doesn't, it stays there because boats are so well insulated, the temperature stays relatively constant. Have you ever had some ice down in your bilge from a cold night and then the next day the temperature goes back up to say 60 degrees? 70 maybe? You go down in that bilge you will still find that ice, frozen because it has created its own freezer.

The same thing happens with that water, it gets sucked in changing from gaseous form to liquid, in order to *evaporate* the temperature must rise back up again. It's a ONE WAY TRIP.

So which one has a better chance of evaporation? Water trapped beneath 60 gallons of fuel?

Or water formed by condesation in an empty tank?

The empty tank will have a better change of evaporating because the air in the tank has a better chance of rising and falling with the temperature outside vs the 60 gallons of fuel.

Now the point of these forums is to offer advice that is sound, correct, and most up to date with current information. That is all I am trying to do, if you wish to take it fine, if you don't thats also fine. Everyone is entitled to their point of view. For those of you reading that are unsure which side to believe, I am not a boat owner calling upon personal experience. This is my job, I offer you advice and information freely. You should know that, every spring I pump sometimes as much as 150 gallons of fuel out of someone boat, because they did not leave their tank empty for the winter.

Choose wisely, gas is expensive.