Starcraft Holiday 18 question

KilroyJC · Jul 21, 2005

Hello all - Anyone have experience of currently own a Holiday 18? I am now the proud owner of a 1976 with a '75 Evinrude 70hp. The motor has DoelFins installed. It needed a lot of work, and I now have it in seaworthy condition. Cosmetics are a different story. . . ANYWAY - At speeds over 5mph (estimated) the boat handles fine. However, when docking or loading - and even unloading from - the trailer, this thing is an unmannered PIG. Is it just my boat, or is this a something that others have experienced? Or is it just me? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Matt M.

gewf631 · Jul 21, 2005

Re: Starcraft Holiday 18 question

The Holiday and SuperSport are basically the same boats (Holiday is closed bow, SuperSport is bow rider). I've got a '77 SuperSport with a '88 Merc 115hp. I can't say it's ever been a problem, no matter what speed I'm at. Like anything, it takes practice, and it does depend on what (and how) it's loaded. I use a roller trailer, so no problem there. Maybe the hull leaks, and the foam is water-soaked. The dry weight is under 1000 lbs (without motor), so to call it a PIG doesn't seem fitting.

KilroyJC · Jul 21, 2005

Re: Starcraft Holiday 18 question

Ed - I'm pretty sure the hull doesn't leak, because after I stripped it out, I filled the hull with water up to the top of the transom well. This accomplished 2 things: 1) I found out there were no leaks; 2) I was able to float up all the deteriorated factory Styro, and all the nuthulls and animal nesting debris and other assorted nastiness, and remove it with a pool skimmer. The boat went into the water for the first time this year yesterday, and I keep it on the trailer with the jack all the way up to promote good drainage to the drain port. The pig part comes into play in terms of the bad manners it shows at the extreme low speed. I am thinking that the next time I go play with it (It is inconveniently located about 60 miles away at my friend's house near the water) I will disconnect the steering linkage and see it there is a greater amount of travel in the motor pivot than the steering mechanism will allow, because it just feels like it needs more steering control. It is not that heavy massive unresponsiveness that you get from unnecessary weight - if you grab a rail on my boat at the dock and move it around, it feels almost as light as my friend's 16 foot Boston Whaler. Which was nice when I had to jump into Barnegat Bay yesterday & manhandle the boat into its proper position on the trailer. Trailer has 3 new keel rollers and I replaced the original carpeted bunkboards with roller bunks last week. So maybe "ill-mannered pig" was a poor choice of words. It sortakinda acts like one of those racehorses that doesn't want to go into the starting gate, if that's a better illustration. Not that you'd confuse my boat with a thoroughbred race horse!

gewf631 · Jul 22, 2005

Re: Starcraft Holiday 18 question

Mark, I see essentially 2 different issues here: One, the bad manners it shows at the extreme low speed is mostly likely weight and steering related. It's probably not over-weight , because as you mentioned, it's easy to move with the rail. Maybe it's so light, that the slightest force causes extreme results - kind of like a feather in the wind. And without enough steering movement, it's hard to correct-for. BTY, that boat is listed with the OB, as 956 lbs. dry. The second issue, unloading from - the trailer shouldn't have any bearing on how the boat performs on the water. This one needs more information - why is unloading so difficult? Doesn't it want to slide off the roller bunks? Does it slide/float off so easily that it's hard to control? Could it be a setup issue with your new roller bunks? Is it a ramp issue? Many questions...

DJ · Jul 22, 2005

Re: Starcraft Holiday 18 question

That is a good boat. I owned a '76' 18' Super Sport, same hull. The hull is light and very high (broad) sided with very little deadrise (deep V). In any wind, it can be a handful, at low speed. But, it behaves fine, once you get used to it.

KilroyJC · Jul 22, 2005

Re: Starcraft Holiday 18 question

Thanks guys - DJ - that info makes sense, because it does drift quite nicely in a breeze, which makes Ed's observation with the offloading go hand-in-hand: It rolls easily, but is always trying to get sideways as soon as the resistance from the rollers changes, i.e. the keel rollers seem to be acting as pivot points, which change as the boat goes off. I did my best to set up the roller & bunk heights to give the most even support overall, but i might lower the bunks by about 1/4 inch, as it seemed that the bow was swinging before the boat had gone more than 2 ft. off the trailer. This might help the keel track better on the center rollers. Any thoughts? That's why it's nice ot hash this out with other people who have the same equipment - my experience has been with my friend's 13' adn 16' Whalers, which almost seem to go onto the trailer as if it were on rails. I guess I'll have to practicepracticepractice with this one. BTW/FYI - At speed this boat rides very nicely, and is instantly on plane. I guesstimate from this weekend's excursion that I can get about 30-32 miles out of a 6-gallon tank. Of course, that's with just me in the boat & no extra gear. . .

Tacklewasher · Jul 25, 2005

Re: Starcraft Holiday 18 question

I've got a 1975 Holiday I/O that I've converted to carry a 115hp Evinrude O/B. I don't have any low speed handling problems, just high speed issues as I have a spun hub (in for repair). As to the loading, it took a long time for me to figure out how to load this thing properly. Now I have a full roller trailer and if I put the trailer too far in the water, I could never get the boat centered without me getting wet. I've figured out that I need to just get the last roller in the water and winch it up the full length of the trailer in order for it to sit right. Otherwise the slightest wind or wave would push it off center. So, what do you get for top speed with the 70 hp? And Ed F, same question. And what pitch prop. Only asking as I've only had my boat out 4 times and not once with a good prop. Hoping to see 45 mph with a 19p but am worried I might be better off with a 17p to get my revs right.

KilroyJC · Jul 25, 2005

Re: Starcraft Holiday 18 question

Hey TW - I've only had the boat out twice: once last year with everything jury rigged just to get it on the water, and once last week. I just ordered a tach to figger out exactly what my WOT RPM is, because it sounds like I can get a couple hunnert more out of it. Right now the guesstimate speed is about 25MPH, but in two weeks i go up to Lake George NY for 2 weeks, and I'll have the tach in and a GPS to borrow, & I can give a legit result. I already know I have to drill vent holes in the prop because you can hear & feel it lug out of the hole. I have to try your method of just putting the trailer in shallow - I've gotten so used to trailering my friend's 16'Whaler by having the trailer deep & simply driving it on. I have to get some of my pix up soon. One of the things I did that you might try: On either side of the transom well, behind each rear seat, is a WHOLE LOTTA WASTED SPACE. I put in two 6-inch screw-in access plates, and then secured an old battery box to the transom underneath, and now have additional storage! It's a great place to keep the docklines & some extra lines.

KilroyJC · Sep 9, 2005

Re: Starcraft Holiday 18 question

OK - I'm back from some business trips & vacation, and have replaced my fried disk drive. Tacklewasher: I just spent two weeks at Lake George, NY & had plenty of time to play around with the boat. I borrowed a GPS and rigged a temporary tach, and here's what I have for numbers: Original prop 14X17 - Max RPM@WOT 4100, 25.2mph top speed. With just me in the boat. When I had a boatload of camping gear & another person, it wouldn't even get on plane. Swapped a 13 3/4X15 from my friend's 16' Whaler with (essentially) the same motor (1992 vintage), which had been run over some rocks & was missing about a finger-sized chunk off two of the 3 blades. that gave me: 4500rpm@WOT at 27.3mph. I also later transported 2 people plus gear, and was able to do 4400rpm AND get on plane (roughly 22mph). It was a noticeable improvement even with a damaged prop. (With my prop on the Whaler it got 32MPH. Didn't check the speed with the 15P, but it did seem a little faster at WOT without losing anything out of the hole) I'm looking around to try to borrow or buy used cheeeep a 13X15 to try. I don't think a 13 pitch prop would do anything other than get my revs up over 5000. I think that'd be too little pitch for any sort of top end speed. I'd like to get over 5000 RPM, but without losing top end speed. The next problem I'm going to have to address is that I now have a bit of a transom separation situation occuring. A couple of rivets around the transom well assembly have sheared, and there's a gap about 1/2 inch between the sheet metal and transom. yee hah I also noticed on the trailer that the keel rollers are not exactly in line, and that the boat sits slightly lower at the bow than the stern (about an inch) on the trailer, so I'll post overon the trailer secton at some point to ask about the proper way to set up a trailer. But that might have something to do with the on & off problems I've been experiencing. Thanks, Matt M

Chinewalker · Sep 13, 2005

Re: Starcraft Holiday 18 question

Kilroy, You're killing your motor with those props! You must get your revs up over 5600-5800 or you're going to blow the motor. Those 3-cylinder OMCs like to rev and when you lug them down they coke up and burn pistons. Part of it is that you've got a 70hp on an 18-foot boat. As light as it is, that's a big boat for a 70. Even so, you have to do something to bring the revs up. Let the motor hit its power band and you'll likely see much performance improvement... - Scott

KilroyJC · Sep 13, 2005

Re: Starcraft Holiday 18 question

Hi Chinewalker - A little history on the boat: One of my friend's parents' cousins (yeah - it's one of THOSE stories) Wanted to get a new boat last year. However, with the other 5 in the yard, he needed to make room. This one was the oldest, and hadn't been used in 8-9 years. L0NG story short, it was a situation of "Somebody take it, or it's getting junked!" Free is for me

! SOOOO... The 14X17 is what was on it when I hauled it away. I got it into the water once last year, just for the sake of getting it in the water after spending the bulk of my summer weekends making it seaworthy (or at least, well, nevermind). Then I did some more in the spring to make it fully seaworthy & capable of passing a couresy inspection, and got it out one more time before my Lake George excursion (that I just got back from), where I had a Tach, GPS, and the other (damaged) prop to swap. SO this has been a "run whatcha brung" exercise. I knew by ear the first two runs I needed more RPMs, but didn't want to get into it here without some definite data. SO NOW THE BIG QUESTION: (and don't tell me to go & buy a 115HP to hang off the back) (or a 125HP) What should I do with what I have now to make the situation better? (And don't say "5 gallons of gas and a match"!)

13X15? 14X13? 11.5X17? 12X15 4blade? Any thoughts/ideas/suggestions/criticisms/etc greatly appreciated. I'm finally going to gett off my duff & get one of those free websites so that I can put up pix. Hopefully in the next week or three. . .

Chinewalker · Sep 13, 2005

Re: Starcraft Holiday 18 question

Hi KilroyJC, By no means go the match and gas route! All you need to do is look at my website to know that I'm a glutton for punishment and lost causes when it comes to my boats! Although the 70 is probably underpowering the 18-footer, it can work for you for basic cruising around as long as you can get a lower pitch prop on there to bring the revs up. I think the 14x13 might be a good choice to get you within shouting distance of the ballpark. As an analogy, right now you're climbing uphill in 5th gear all the time while towing a trailer. You need to drop it down to 4th gear, and possibly even 3rd... On another note - might be a good idea to try another tachometer just to verify your readings. It also assumes your motor is basically healthy to begin with. Out of curiosity - is the hull straight? If you were to lay a straightedge along the keel, is the keel straight? A hook or rocker may be contributing to your handling issue... - Scott

KilroyJC · Sep 13, 2005

Re: Starcraft Holiday 18 question

CW - After all the work I've put in, the LAST thing I'd do is the gas & match! Near as I've eyeballed, the keel looks straight (boat is 65 miles away right at the moment, so I can't verify). However, I think it goes back to what Ed F said about weight vs. sail area - The last run in from the island we were camping on invovles loading everyting that stays in the boat for the long ride home last, and then just putting the boat on the trailer all loaded up. The extra weight of all that gear made loading a great deal easier - none of that bobbing cork action. I will check that keel out this weekend. I do have another almost-identical tach (different bezel & lens - same guts) that I also picked up on eBay to put in my friend's boat. I can swap that one in easily enough. I'm making a mounting cup for the tach out of a 3" ABS plumbing elbow (too cheeeep to buy a cup that'll rust in a year), but right now it's just duct-taped to the dash...easily changed out. Other than the 14X13, and other suggested prop sizes to try? I'm pestering all the boaters I work with to find loaner props to borrow! BTW: http://mysite.verizon.net/vze8cnv0/ Just created it & have 1 pic up from last year. Will add more soon!

KilroyJC · Sep 14, 2005

Re: Starcraft Holiday 18 question

I'm going over to the Prop Questions forum to continue this there. Got a few more pix up on the site, too

gewf631 · Sep 15, 2005

Re: Starcraft Holiday 18 question

Neat pictures - brings back memories of my '76 Supersport 18-footer! With your modifications, it looks like you took some weight out of that Holiday, so that handling issue seems to have been solved! Sorry to hear (in another post) about your transom issues. Don't know if you've checked it out, but there's another group devoted to Starcraft boats, over here.

GrandLarsony · Sep 15, 2005

Re: Starcraft Holiday 18 question

GREAT BOAT -- My dad had the SS (140 hp Merc I/O)and my uncle had the Holiday (120 hp Merc I/O). Both were EXCELLENT lake boats. Both were 1974 or 1975 I think. Our SS had some rot in the floorboards up front, and we cut out a rectangle, inserted two plastic wash tubs (maybe 16" square each) and made a hinged hatch like a double-ended picnic basket. Used them for anchor and line, etc. Also, the seat boxes got a little spongy. The driver seat was ripped so we rebuilt the box for it, used the (good) back seat for the driver, and created a custom storage box behind the driver seat. Had a drawer and door, cutting board (removable) on top, tackle drawers, etc. Removed the jump seats and used the aft corners for standing room while fishing. Really opened things up. Used a cooler \ cushion for fish box and seat when needed in one corner. Also did that trick with holes in the top of transom to access the hidden storage areas. Anyhow, thanks for bringing back a whole ton of great memories. We went to Canada with 4 families every year and kept the SS rigged for fishing, and the Holiday rigged for tubing. What fun we had...

KilroyJC · Sep 15, 2005

Re: Starcraft Holiday 18 question

Ed - Nice link! - I just scanned it briefly, but will check it out in depth as time permits. FYI - In my rebuilding, I probably made the boat HEAVIER. The original foam floataion was styrofoam blocks inserted in the bilge, with a lot of void space. I replaced that with poured 4lb/sq.in urethane foam - 14 gallons (7 part A/7 part B) (http://www.shopmaninc.com/foam.html) - so that there is virtually no void space. That also had the beneficial effects of : a)stiffening the hull to no end; b) doublling, or maybe tripling, the amount of floatation compared to what was factory installed. At some point I have to paint the hull -above and below the waterline- and I'm thinking of doing something funky with the bow decking...I think I want to wood-grain the paint using one of those rubber woodgraining tools. That should give it a unique look, huh? I KNOW --- AFTER THE TRANSOM IS FIXED! I hope to get a few photos of the current state of affairs this weekend & put them up on my site. GL - Glad my pix of my beat-up little boat could bring up good memories. I'm working on making my own with her. I was tempted last year to install a couple of flush deck lockers when I re-did the decking, but decided that there was enough storage up under the bow. Besides that, being a little underpowered, I like to keep some weight forward - she's bery weight-distribution sensitive. I have a boarding ladder, anchor rode & chain, 4-pk PFD's, 100'hank o' 5/8' rope, a 5-gal jug of 50:1, and a 3HP kicker that I keep in an army duffel. I need to extend my kicker plate to use it, because there's not enough room to tilt it up when not in use. That little motor is anohter story entirely - 1952 Ev. LighTwin 2-cyl that a friend of mine GAVE me (free is for me!). I could get it to fire, but not run more than 10-15 seconds. That was enough to justify to me spending the $160 on the complete overhaul kit (http://www.maxrules.com/fixtuneitup.html). I found that link by searching the forum here & got a whole lotta good info. ANywho, 2 weekends and the thing starts on 1 pull, and I can get to idle down to about 200rpm before it stalls out. It's almost laughable how well that little motor runs! I'm also making a mounting cup for my tach out of ABS plumbing fittings - hope to have pix of that up soon.

KilroyJC · Sep 23, 2005

Re: Starcraft Holiday 18 question

I may have found part of my low speed handling problem... I have decided to forego getting the boat out on the water again this year so I can start on replacing my transom (I started another topic for that). I just began the process of disconnecting all the controls & cables. When I disconnected the steering link from the steering cable, I swung the engine back & forth to see the full extent of travel and I do not get full stop-to-stop swing out of my motor! Apparently, with the space I have in the splashwell, if I were set up to get full travel turning to starboard, the link would be too short for getting much steering to port. Conversely, if the link were long enough to allow full travel for a port turn, the end of the cable would extend and stop agains the inside of the splashwell with barely any steering to starboard. To get full extension either way I'd need about 3 to 4 inches more cable retraction and 4-5 more inches of cable extension. If I get ambitious I'll look for a carpenter's protractor & figger out exactly what the degree difference is between where the steering stops when connected and what it is when the motor is swung to its pivot stops. Of course, I left my digital camera home so I can't take any pix this weeknd...damn... Any recommendations?

reddog349 · Sep 23, 2005

Re: Starcraft Holiday 18 question

Kilroy-I have a 1974 starcraft 18 holiday just like yours with a 1977 evinrude 70 hp on it. They handle seas well. 1 thing I have noticed is that at lower speeds the bow tends to lay low .I think its due to engine wieght (or lack of?) As for the comment of being under powered - I havent checked my speed but ive been told I do about 25to 28 mph. Yes its no speed record but its a pleasant cruise and the boat handles well.I think a 115 hp would be a better size for ride at both fast and slow speed. I had similar issues loading and found I was just backing the trailer way to far .

KilroyJC · Sep 24, 2005

Re: Starcraft Holiday 18 question

Hi Reddog - Sounds like we have pretty much the same rig! Get a tach & a gps & see how your numbers compare to mine - what prop are you using? ----- Next time I'm taking it out of the water, I'm going to try to not go in so deep with the trailer. I do still have to adjust the keel rollers & bunks to get a better angle. I'll eventually go over to the Trailers forum for that.

Starcraft Holiday 18 question

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