Signs of bad pour foam

[Wildey]

Hi, just poured some foam. 2 lb, 2 gal kit. was to be about 8 cu ft. Only expanded to about 4>5 cu ft. Mixed 1 pint of each at a time, 80 degrees B into A as instructed. It set off in under 15 seconds and blew very large bubbles. A broken off piece reveals no closed cells, all just a web of material. I have used pour foam before, but never had it act this way.
Any pointers ? Preferred source ?
Thanks

 

[racerone]

Give supplier a call.------Maybe they will admit to a bad batch.

 

[Wildey]

Give supplier a call.------Maybe they will admit to a bad batch.

From ebay, sent a message yesterday, waiting for reply now, Thanks

I'm wondering if I have to dig all of this out and do it again ? or just pour more over it ?
Thanks

 

[Scott Danforth]

You bought from from EBAY? And not a reputable fiberglass supply house?

 

[Wildey]

You bought from from EBAY? And not a reputable fiberglass supply house?

I saw nothing that indicated that they were not reputable. Looks like a big supplier. Just used their ebay outlet for ease of payment/shipping.
Do you recognize these folks ? Maybe a fly by night outfit ?
Thanks Scott.

Core Materials and Foam Online Store - Fiberglass Warehouse

Buy Core Materials and Foam products from Fiberglass Warehouse Online Store.

fiberglasswarehouse.com

 

[Scott Danforth]

I notice their website doesn't have a physical address listed and they are internet only

 

[Wildey]

I notice their website doesn't have a physical address listed and they are internet only

Do you recognize these cats from Fl. ?

Fiberglass , Epoxy , Composites, Carbon Fiber - U.S. Composites, Inc.

America's leading distributor of composite materials. We combine superior products and the industries' lowest prices with fast and accurate service.

www.uscomposites.com

Looks like a slap happy website, similar prices tho.
Do you have a preferred source ? (asked earlier)

I put 24 oz of A in a calibrated pail, added 24 oz. of B and mixed quickly with a dry plastic paint stick. In less than 15 seconds the pail quickly foamed over onto the ground (and me) before I could turn around, take 2 steps and dump it in the boat. Thenk it blew up into large bubbles and barely expanded. Supposed to take more like 45 seconds to begin expanding, as I'm reading and as is my earlier experiences (years ago)

 

[Scott Danforth]

US composites are good. I personally use FGCI

with expanding foam, best to make small pours. the warmer it is, the faster it kicks

 

[kcassells]

I have never had any issues with USC

 

[Wildey]

US composites are good. I personally use FGCI

with expanding foam, best to make small pours. the warmer it is, the faster it kicks

I have never had any issues with USC

At 80 - 85 degrees, what size batches would you recommend ?
I did got to 1 pint each with not so good results. Less than that, perhaps ?
Maybe just a batch of bad stuff ..
Thanks

 

[tpenfield]

Hard to say, if it was bad batch of foam.

You mentioned 80˚ F temperature. Was that the outside temperature? Was the foam liquid stored at 80˚ F? . . . or were the A & B liquids colder? Was anything else (boat, etc) colder?

Typical 2# foam should give you about 20 seconds of mixing time and maybe another 15-20 seconds of pouring time before the chemical reaction/expansion begins.

The expansion should be 25-30X the liquid volume, so you should have gotten 50-60 gallons of expanded/cured foam or about 7.5 cubic feet. (8 cubic feet, if you get the full 30X expansion)

 

[Wildey]

The temp. in the shade was right at 80 all day. Boat is under a white canopy in the shade. Everything was in the same locale and was at ambient temps.
I've mixed and poured quart batches before and never saw anything like what this stuff did.
Thanks

 

[kcassells]

Typically, I set up 2 separate qrts. at half full of ea. But I line up multiple units to make the pour. The stuff is crazy fast.
Boat should be tilted to let the mix flow and at least 1 good air relief hole, which can be the fill hole. Depends on area size getting filled.
I used multiple cheap paint paddles on the drill for a good mix.
I had big cavities.
Give this a read, good stuff.

Urethane Foam , Expanding Marine Polyurethane Foam

Wholesale/retail sales of composite and fiberglass materials, including epoxy, adhesives, carbon fibers, urethane foam, urethane casting rubbers

www.uscomposites.com

 

[Wildey]

Typically, I set up 2 separate qrts. at half full of ea. But I line up multiple units to make the pour. The stuff is crazy fast.
Boat should be tilted to let the mix flow and at least 1 good air relief hole, which can be the fill hole. Depends on area size getting filled.
I used multiple cheap paint paddles on the drill for a good mix.
I had big cavities.
Give this a read, good stuff.

Urethane Foam , Expanding Marine Polyurethane Foam

Wholesale/retail sales of composite and fiberglass materials, including epoxy, adhesives, carbon fibers, urethane foam, urethane casting rubbers

www.uscomposites.com

That is the info I was referring to. Especially this part: (pic)
Mine ran the tub over in 15 seconds. Whattamess
This is going into basically 2 rectangular boxes at the rear end of a 16' aluminum v-hull boat. Totally open top to be covered with a carpeted aluminum sheet.
Thanks !

 

[tpenfield]

I would think it was a bad batch. The company has a fairly large Internet footprint and decent reviews, even though they are not up front about their physical location(s).

 

[Wildey]

Hi Ted, thanks. I expect a reply from them today maybe when back to business.
I like your pages, nice articles and documented procedures ! Great job there.
I saw this (attached) pic regarding your additional flotation. I've often wondered about encapsulating blocks of expanded polystyrene in a foam pour and why it might, or might not be advisable. In my case, there are 2 basically rectangular areas to be filled, roughly 14" X 16" X 31". I'd thought about a bed of pour foam, then blocks leaving several inches for pour foam all around to totally encapsulate it. Never saw this mentioned, just wondering if it would be OK. I assume fuel is the major concern regarding the styrofoam. The bench seats of my jon boat have solid blocks of styrofoam in them, but of course are largely in open air and above any direct fuel exposure and likely not affected by vapors.
Thanks again,

 

[tpenfield]

EPS boards used as flotation generally want/need to have air exposure on many of the sides. That is why I used thin strips to hold the EPS up off the hull when used in hull cavities. It may also be helpful to coat them with something like latex paint (water-based) to improve their water resistance. (I may try that some day).

If you are filling in a hull chamber or foaming in a fuel tank, it would be best in my opinion to use the expanding urethane foam entirely for more uniform structural strength.

 

[76SeaRay]

I used US Composites almost exclusively for Poly Resin and Pour Foam until the shipping costs got too high to ship from Florida to Washington State. No problems with USC although I had one bucket of Poly Resin that was a little off color. USC assured me that was no problem and it seemed to work just fine. My last 5 gallon bucket of Poly Resin I got from Fiberglass Supply in Burlington, Washington so I could drive up and pick it up instead of shipping. I haven't opened it yet to see how it performs.

 

[Scott Danforth]

I just picked up 4 gallons of 4# from FGCI for a work project. It was mixed and packaged earlier on Friday.

 

[Wildey]

Can't get much fresher than that !
My guy recommends mixing with a drill and small paddle mixer instead of a stick for more complete mixing. I have some mixers coming, but am wondering how to clean the mixer between batches. I'll be pouring multiple cavities with continuous small batch mixing.
Is there a solvent to clean the mixer in between batches ? Or let it cure enough to peel the foam off ? Could alternate between 2 or 3 mixers, maybe ?
Thanks