Sealing marine plywood?

[theoryofwi]

hello all,
so this is my first post here and iv searched through the forums but didnt find exactly what im looking for. I am currently redecking my 19 ft. monark deep v. I will also be obv re-carpeting the deck and i need to replace my livewell as that was the cause of the problem to begin with. Anyway my question is do you guys really buy the marine grade 2 part epoxy resin to do this with at $50 bucks a gallon? my experience with this stuff in the past in small amounts was that it wasnt very brush or roller friendly? I wasnt sure if i should seal it but i wanna do this right and have it last as i will be repainting the boat and trailer this fall if everything works out. also does anyone have any experience with moving stuff around like livewells and battery's? i am for sure moving the 2 up front battery's to the back and kinda wanna put a livewell in the middle. but with a kicker i dont know if that will be too much. all flotation foam is going back in place as i dont really wanna mess with replacing that if i dont have to. (another can of worms i dont wanna deal with).
thank you

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Sealing marine plywood?

An aluminum Monark 19ft deep v? Post some pix of your rig, no matter it's current state of disarray. Some pre-tear down too.

Epoxy isn't cheap, but it's what I'd recommend under carpet, others use spar. Pay now for the best plywood & sealers you can, or pay to do it again later. Will that be in 10yrs or 30yrs? More? Less? Hard to KNOW, but most of the Starcraft boats that get rebuilt have had the completely unsealed plywood transoms last 30yrs or longer.

I personally feel that the cost & delay (waiting for it to cure) using epoxy is worth the time & expense. Perhaps $100-150 extra to use epoxy vs spar for the complete build. Others will have an different opinion.

Why are you moving the battery(s) to the back? What are you planning to put up front in the former battery location.

If the flotation foam is a can of worms, why are you putting it back in:

all flotation foam is going back in place as i dont really wanna mess with replacing that if i dont have to. (another can of worms i dont wanna deal with)

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Sealing marine plywood?

Anyway my question is do you guys really buy the marine grade 2 part epoxy resin to do this with at $50 bucks a gallon? my experience with this stuff in the past in small amounts was that it wasnt very brush or roller friendly?

$50/gallon ($30-50) sound like poly resin, Epoxy is more like $70-100/gallon. Epoxy is easily brushed/rolled, but can be runny. I use a squeegee for epoxy, which helps push it around without getting a bunch of bubbles in it,,, squeegee and a brush. I had a roller for my last project (swim platform) but never used the roller...

Moving the batteries to the stern could throw off boat balance, to some degree. I'd try them in that position first for a test run to see how the boat reacts, before making it permanent.

 

[theoryofwi]

Re: Sealing marine plywood?

Why are you moving the battery(s) to the back? What are you planning to put up front in the former battery location.

If the flotation foam is a can of worms, why are you putting it back in:

Moving the batterys cause the front of the boat is so much rougher than the back. i do a lot of lake michigan and lake winnibago fishing, so they get beat up pretty good in the front. I had to remove some of the side foam to access the decking but i laid it out in my basment exactly how it was. and if starcraft doesnt seal their marine plywood and it lasts 30 years then why do some ppl still do it? just wondering. and how long does it take for the stuff to cure? ill try and post pics again

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Sealing marine plywood?

Here's an Old Timers alternative that will work. Cost is about 80 bucks. Get a 5 gallon bucket Buy a gallon of Boiled Linseed Oil Pour it in. Pour in two gallons of Mineral Spirits, Pour in a Gallon of Spar Varnish. Mix well. Apply Liberally to the plywood. Keep applying until the liquid pools on the wood and will no longer absorb into the wood. Wipe clean. Allow to dry for 72 hours. Paint with Oil Based Paint. BLO has a LOT of solids in it. Thinning it allows deep penetration into the wood and the solids in the BLO will fill the pores of wood and Seal then The Spar Varnish acts as an additional water barrier sealer and as the pores are filled and the liquid rises to the top it will eventually seal the surface as well. The Old Wood boat builders used this and still do. It works very well. 4 gallons goes a LONG way and seals a lot of wood. That's just a recommendation from an...

 

[theoryofwi]

Re: Sealing marine plywood?

Paint with Oil Based Paint. BLO has a LOT of solids in it. [/IMG]

i would not be painting it but this doesn't seem bad. what do you use to adhere the carpet to the wood after? and one thing i haven't figured out but also haven't looked into much as iv been busy all week is if i use the 2 part epoxy do i do both sides then rivet the wood to the boat then lay the carpet down? do do you rivet the wood down, epoxy and carpet at the same time? like is the epoxy a glue for the carpet as well? thanks ill post how it turns out this weekend!

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Sealing marine plywood?

You need to seal and carpet your plywood before installing it in your boat.

Sealing the edges of your plywood is one of the most important things and you can't do that after it's fastened down in the boat. You need to at least seal the top side of your plywood and the edges, you can seal the bottom side of the plywood if you want or think it'll get wet. Use multiple coats of epoxy, I like 4 coats for an extremely durable protective finish.

Installing the carpet in an aluminum boat after the decking has been laid is a rookie mistake made by people that aren't thinking ahead. If you ever have problems below deck and need to remove your decking you'll have to rip up all of your nice new carpeting to remove the plywood... then you'll have to sand off all the carpet glue to find the screws! And to make matters even worse you'll have to buy brand new carpeting and install it again!!!

Instead, you should wrap each piece of decking individually with carpet covering the top side, edges and a couple of inches around the back of the plywood. After the carpet is installed on the plywood screw the pieces in place through the carpeting on the boat. The screws will be hidden by the carpet knap but you'll be able to find them later by feeling around for them if you need to remove your decking for below deck repairs or modifications.

Installing carpeted panels in an aluminum boat is OEM for all manufacturers these days, they do it so they don't have to rip out and replace new carpeting for warranty work.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Sealing marine plywood?

You don't have to paint after using the BLO just an option. The Spar varnish gas plenty of UV protection and the ply will be sealed

 

[greenbush future]

Re: Sealing marine plywood?

You need to seal and carpet your plywood before installing it in your boat.

Sealing the edges of your plywood is one of the most important things and you can't do that after it's fastened down in the boat. You need to at least seal the top side of your plywood and the edges, you can seal the bottom side of the plywood if you want or think it'll get wet. Use multiple coats of epoxy, I like 4 coats for an extremely durable protective finish.

Installing the carpet in an aluminum boat after the decking has been laid is a rookie mistake made by people that aren't thinking ahead. If you ever have problems below deck and need to remove your decking you'll have to rip up all of your nice new carpeting to remove the plywood... then you'll have to sand off all the carpet glue to find the screws! And to make matters even worse you'll have to buy brand new carpeting and install it again!!!

Instead, you should wrap each piece of decking individually with carpet covering the top side, edges and a couple of inches around the back of the plywood. After the carpet is installed on the plywood screw the pieces in place through the carpeting on the boat. The screws will be hidden by the carpet knap but you'll be able to find them later by feeling around for them if you need to remove your decking for below deck repairs or modifications.

Installing carpeted panels in an aluminum boat is OEM for all manufacturers these days, they do it so they don't have to rip out and replace new carpeting for warranty work.

For tin boats this is exactly what I'm doing too. Being able to remove the decking for various reasons w/o destroying your carpet and wallet seems like a very wise choice. I did it with vinyl on a tinny and it worked really well too. Carpet is really nice for many reasons, one of my boats is multi-purpose. so I need the carpet for the girlfriend and barefoot boating comfort. Otherwise, i would do vinyl wrap again, really easy for wash downs when fish and bait, pop and puke related messes occur.

 

[theoryofwi]

Re: Sealing marine plywood?

For tin boats this is exactly what I'm doing too. Being able to remove the decking for various reasons w/o destroying your carpet and wallet seems like a very wise choice. I did it with vinyl on a tinny and it worked really well too. Carpet is really nice for many reasons, one of my boats is multi-purpose. so I need the carpet for the girlfriend and barefoot boating comfort. Otherwise, i would do vinyl wrap again, really easy for wash downs when fish and bait, pop and puke related messes occur.

maybe I should look into putting vinyl on the decking instead of carpet. as this is a big water fishing boat. also I think im going to go pick up epoxy today after work and start putting on the layers. esp. the edges. the way they boat was carpeted was half way up the walls (gunnel?) and the decking. it was all one piece. then individual panels that were riveted the the sides to complete the boat. I think I can probably carpet the sides separately from the decking like you guys are talking about. it makes way more sense. thank you guys for ur help so far I cant wait to finish this and get on the water. (ice is melting and its 60 here today so time to get this done).

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Sealing marine plywood?

If you're thinking about vinyl have a look at my resto thread:

http://forums.iboats.com/boat-resto...ir/97-tracker-pro-deep-v-facelift-509163.html

 

[bassmanhb]

Re: Sealing marine plywood?

Hey guys,

1 trick I learned doing my first boat, was to use a rolling pin (yes like the one your wife uses) to roll over your carpet once you have the glue down and carpet ready to put on.... it pushes the glue into the carpet with moderate pressure and once dry your carpet will stick to the wood like no other ! give it a try sometime works great.


bass

 

[theoldwizard1]

Re: Sealing marine plywood?

Hey guys,

1 trick I learned doing my first boat, was to use a rolling pin (yes like the one your wife uses) to roll over your carpet once you have the glue down and carpet ready to put on.... it pushes the glue into the carpet with moderate pressure and once dry your carpet will stick to the wood like no other ! give it a try sometime works great.


bass

You can buy a J roller for counter top laminate for under $20 so you won't get in trouble with the Admiral !

 

[bassmanhb]

Re: Sealing marine plywood?

Wizard,

They would work ok also, but with the rolling pin you can put more force on it plus they are cheaper, only $8 bucks at Wally world....

And you know as well as I do once you restore 1 boat your hooked and will more than likely buy another boat or 2 to restore. so buy one just for yourself and the ADMIRAL WONT GET UPSET


bass

 

[theoldwizard1]

Re: Sealing marine plywood?

Here's an Old Timers alternative that will work. Cost is about 80 bucks. Get a 5 gallon bucket Buy a gallon of Boiled Linseed Oil Pour it in. Pour in two gallons of Mineral Spirits, Pour in a Gallon of Spar Varnish. Mix well. Apply Liberally to the plywood. Keep applying until the liquid pools on the wood and will no longer absorb into the wood. Wipe clean. Allow to dry for 72 hours. Paint with Oil Based Paint. BLO has a LOT of solids in it. Thinning it allows deep penetration into the wood and the solids in the BLO will fill the pores of wood and Seal then The Spar Varnish acts as an additional water barrier sealer and as the pores are filled and the liquid rises to the top it will eventually seal the surface as well. The Old Wood boat builders used this and still do. It works very well. 4 gallons goes a LONG way and seals a lot of wood. That's just a recommendation from an...

WOW ! I haven't heard this formula is many, MANY years ! I don't think I would mix 4 gallons of that up at one time, but I think your ration are spot on ! You do need to do all sides and edges. Some people would say do a second coat with more spar varnish/less linseed oil in it. I might take longer than 72 hours to dry, depending on your temp.

One word of caution. Any rags used need to be stored outside and opened up to air out/dry. Balled up rags with linseed oil WILL SPONTANEOUSLY COMBUST !

 

[theoryofwi]

Re: Sealing marine plywood?

jigngrub, seriously nice job on that boat. im sure you were smiling ear to ear when that was done. but may i ask, so iv got 3 sheets of marine plywood @ $50 a piece, gonna do the marine grade 2 part epoxy $100 prolly right? and then the vinyl/adhesive/glue. im probably looking at about $500 or so id think? has anyone been able to do away with all that and find plastic flooring that can compete as far as uv/strength/weight/price?

 

[Auger01]

Re: Sealing marine plywood?

Good call on the epoxy. The carpet is going to hold moisture against the wood and anything less that epoxy would allow the wood to rot in very short order. I would do at least three coats to ensure proper sealing. You dont have to wait until the first is completely dry before applying the next coat. If you let it completely dry, it needs to be sanded so the next coat can adhere properly.

You might even consider a light layer of fiberglass over the wood for the best sealing. Something like a 6oz woven cloth. You would only need one coat of epoxy for that. Fiberglass is cheaper than epoxy. Dont forget to coat the bottom too.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Sealing marine plywood?

jigngrub, seriously nice job on that boat. im sure you were smiling ear to ear when that was done. but may i ask, so iv got 3 sheets of marine plywood @ $50 a piece, gonna do the marine grade 2 part epoxy $100 prolly right? and then the vinyl/adhesive/glue. im probably looking at about $500 or so id think? has anyone been able to do away with all that and find plastic flooring that can compete as far as uv/strength/weight/price?

There are much cheaper alternatives, but the last thing I would skimp on is the 2 part epoxy.

If you shop around online you can find the Nautolex vinyl cheaper than the lower grade marine carpet, Defender is one place.

But your cheapest build will be to go with a paint on finish like Durabak ($125/gal) or Tuff Coat ($90/gal), or even cheaper... much cheaper, a garage floor paint with a non slip additive.

I used this stuff:
BEHR Premium 1-gal. #902 Slate Gray 1-Part Epoxy Concrete and Garage Floor Paint-90201 at The Home Depot
on some exterior stairs with this additive mixed in:
BEHR Premium Non-Skid Floor Finish Additive-97024 at The Home Depot
and it looks good, is non slip that you can walk on with bare feet and cheap compared to other coatings. I wouldn't hesitate to use it on an aluminum boat deck if I was going low budget. It will take more work to maintain with annual touch-ups... but it's cheap!

For me, I'll never have carpet in another boat. It'll either be marine vinyl or a paint on product, and either one of those will be installed over 4 coats of 2 part marine epoxy sealer.

 

[theoryofwi]

Re: Sealing marine plywood?

i had to downsize the pictures but figured it out! i do have another question regarding vinyl. i see with yours jigngrub that you only had one sheet of decking to do. i have 3 i would have to do do. the 4th can be left alone its covered by storage. how do you get around water getting in the seams where the pieces of decking connect?

 

[theoryofwi]

Re: Sealing marine plywood?

maybe a layer of rubber inbetween the foam/braces and the wood/vinyl?