sailing faster than the wind/ making your own wind?

[bowman316]

I read that it is possible for some boats to sail faster than the wind.
So for my boat, hull speed is 7 mph. So I there is a 4 mph wind, could I get it up to 7 mph on a beam reach? Is there some trick to it.

On days when there is no wind at all, I would motor, and once I got going 6 mph with the motor, the sails would seem to catch, just because I was moving.

But I I turn the motor off, would the boat just slow down, and I would loose the wind again? Since the wind is not blowing.

 

[saildan]

Re: sailing faster than the wind/ making your own wind?

I read that it is possible for some boats to sail faster than the wind.

Physics dictates that's a situation reserved mainly for multihull designs and iceboats.

... but with the right design on the right tack.


Click Here --> Physics of Sailing

Do you have a good book on basic sailing?

...Get onboard this website too, it's all fellow sailors -
http://www.sailnet.com/forums
​

So for my boat, hull speed is 7 mph. So If there is a 4 mph wind, could I get it up to 7 mph on a beam reach?

Is there some trick to it.

I have no idea if your boat is capable of the numbers you propose. You'll have to research what speed ratio might be possible for your hull design and sail rig.

Here's the secret - Know your boat's design capability and actual behavior by experience; Learn the sailing skills needed to maximize the boat's performance under the right circumstances; Gain experience at recognizing the right set of wind and water conditions that would allow the boat to achieve this level of performance - if it's capable to begin with.

On days when there is no wind at all, I would motor, and once I got going 6 mph with the motor, the sails would seem to catch, just because I was moving.

But I turn the motor off, would the boat just slow down, and I would loose the wind again? Since the wind is not blowing.

Right, just like on a calm day when you drive your car at 30 mph and reach your hand out the window, you feel a 30 mph wind. Your sail is feeling the same sort of wind created by the boat's motor driven forward motion your hand out the car window feels.

It's not a good practice to motor with your sail up. Now, can you tell me why I say that?

 

[H20Rat]

Re: sailing faster than the wind/ making your own wind?

Or read about these guys going directly downwind faster than the wind... I still fail to wrap my head around the concept and don't truly believe it is possible, but the evidence is mounting against me i think... (yes, its not sailing, just wind powered)

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/propulsion/ddwfttw-directly-downwind-faster-than-wind-25527.html

 

[Incorrigible]

Re: sailing faster than the wind/ making your own wind?

The A-scow and E-scow by Melges routinely accomlish this. Nothing better than planning so fast your chute collapses. For more, go to Melges.com or start at the NCESA website

 

[Renny_D]

Re: sailing faster than the wind/ making your own wind?

Done it on multi hulls plenty of times. You start off on a close or beam reach as your speed picks up you start sheeting in. Eventually you are going fast enough that you are close hauled on a beam reach (true wind) at which point you start baring off. Our fastest speeds were always obtained using this method and running what in a normal boat would be a shallow broad reach. Used to race on a dragonfly - eat Farriers for breakfast. Best boat speed to true wind speed we saw was 26 knots in a reported 15knots. We were seeing 15 with gusts to 18 when we hove to a few minutes later for lunch. I think theoretically it's possible on a mono just never seen it happen in on one. For speed you can't beat a multi except maybe with a hydrofoil. But it is an aquired taste for some. My wife at first didn't like it as the movements are very jerky. She liked the more predictable motion of monos. To each his own and having sailed almost everything out there I'd rather be on the slowest boat than in this office typing this response ;-)

Renny

 

[bowman316]

Re: sailing faster than the wind/ making your own wind?

what does sheeting in mean?
the sail inverts?

 

[datarecovery]

Re: sailing faster than the wind/ making your own wind?

I don't think that sailing a boat faster than the wind can ever be possible if you are going in pure wing power.
If you found any evidence then please post it. I would love to learn it.

 

[ghamby]

Re: sailing faster than the wind/ making your own wind?

what does sheeting in mean?
the sail inverts?

It means pulling in on the sheet so the sail comes in closer to the center line
of the boat.
At no point does a sail invert unless you hoist it upside down.

 

[saildan]

Re: sailing faster than the wind/ making your own wind?

I don't think that sailing a boat faster than the wind can ever be possible if you are going in pure wing power.
If you found any evidence then please post it. I would love to learn it.

If you are really interested, just Google it, there's lots of examples.

Click HERE for a Video​

 

[Renny_D]

Re: sailing faster than the wind/ making your own wind?

I don't think that sailing a boat faster than the wind can ever be possible if you are going in pure wing power.
If you found any evidence then please post it. I would love to learn it.

Just stated it above I've done it and as far as I know neither of my parents were gods nor did I go to wizard school. Its actually simple when you think about it - what sailboats do is extract energy from the wind and the interface between wind and the next medium - water, ice, land. If you are moving through air we create relative wind, add to that the true wind and you already have wind that is greater than the true wind speed. Now all you need is a vessel with low resistance to movement thru said second medium, ie: Iceboat, land sail buggy or, light narrow hulled multi, and you are using the addition of true and relative wind to go faster than the true wind. I agree if you were running dead down wind it would be impossible but other points of sail it is quite possible, done it and done it often. Also I was saying I hadn't done it on a mono but I lied. I've done it on a dingy flying an asymetrical chute down wind.

enjoy the wind

Renny

 

[Itsalonestar]

Re: sailing faster than the wind/ making your own wind?

That last line....very funny. When I was a little kid, hiking up the river, shoving a log in there and floating home on it was a big kick.
Have you ever sailed or been on a Telstar 28 Trimaran? Always wondered what people who routinely sail the boats with 3 hulls would have to say about them.

My knot meter is broken, but since I lost track of the date, and don't have a clue what time it is, I don't guess it matters........

Done it on multi hulls plenty of times. You start off on a close or beam reach as your speed picks up you start sheeting in. Eventually you are going fast enough that you are close hauled on a beam reach (true wind) at which point you start baring off. Our fastest speeds were always obtained using this method and running what in a normal boat would be a shallow broad reach. Used to race on a dragonfly - eat Farriers for breakfast. Best boat speed to true wind speed we saw was 26 knots in a reported 15knots. We were seeing 15 with gusts to 18 when we hove to a few minutes later for lunch. I think theoretically it's possible on a mono just never seen it happen in on one. For speed you can't beat a multi except maybe with a hydrofoil. But it is an aquired taste for some. My wife at first didn't like it as the movements are very jerky. She liked the more predictable motion of monos. To each his own and having sailed almost everything out there I'd rather be on the slowest boat than in this office typing this response ;-)

Renny

 

[bruceb58]

Re: sailing faster than the wind/ making your own wind?

Is a function of drag. A displacement hull will never sail faster than the wind.

Ice boats can typically go multiple times faster than the wind.

Think of a watermelon seed squeezed between your fingers and how fast the seed spits out. Similar theory here except the boat is getting squeezed by the wind.

 

[Renny_D]

Re: sailing faster than the wind/ making your own wind?

That last line....very funny. When I was a little kid, hiking up the river, shoving a log in there and floating home on it was a big kick.
Have you ever sailed or been on a Telstar 28 Trimaran? Always wondered what people who routinely sail the boats with 3 hulls would have to say about them.

My knot meter is broken, but since I lost track of the date, and don't have a clue what time it is, I don't guess it matters........

Never sailed on a Telstar. Done big home built cats, racing cats and tris - dragon fly and my own brown off-soundings 38 trimiran. I prefer multis for lots of reasons, speed and safety being the two foremost. The speed I've already alluded to but safety was important to me, on my brown if I tripped and fell out of my cockpit, I then would have to cartwheel twice before I ever fell out of my boat, 9 ft from cockpit edge to side of the boat and I didn't have to worry about a 45 degree heel helping me out. The other nice thing is if holed my boat floats, if cut in half it floated and even capsized she still floated. Downsides are, docking - you have a lot more windage and a lot less mass so going slow and maneuvering in marinas with a good cross wind can be fun.. Also the motion is very different - the boat moves over the water not through it so the motion basically follows the sea contours to some extent. Some folks find that very disconcerting. I've never been taken off my feet by it but you do have to exercise a bit of caution when moving around - mostly to avoid bumps and bruises but the same could be said for monos. Also some older multis don't like to tack - my offsoundings was one of them - semi full keel and light weight were not good for fast tacks in fact done wrong I could end up stopped dead in the water. Usually for me I just jibed around if I had room or just held the jib back winded till the bow came around. Newer multis it's no big deal in fact they maneuver better than many monos I've sailed.

Anyway to each there own and like I said before I'd rather be sailing on anything than not sailing.

Renny

 

[emoney]

Re: sailing faster than the wind/ making your own wind?

Course, it all depends on which club you belong to.

If you're a member of the one I frequent, I guarantee you can sail faster than the wind. Trust me, I hear about all the time....lol

As a matter of fact, two Saturdays ago, I sailed faster than a sailboat that was sailing faster than the wind (at least according to her captain, she was)

 

[moi]

Re: sailing faster than the wind/ making your own wind?

I've done it in my 18' Buccaneer.......

 

[philsboat]

Re: sailing faster than the wind/ making your own wind?

I have a DN60 iceboat which is capable of sailing 60 mph in a 20mph.I personally have sailed 50 mph on GPS in 18-20 mph wind.It's a hoot!!
New Dn's with carbon fibre masts hit 80 mph.The Skeeter class will do over 100 mph.

Phil

 

[Triton II]

Re: sailing faster than the wind/ making your own wind?

Even little racing dinghies regularly reach speeds greater than the true wind speed when reaching. Running downwind with the wind directly behind you will actually slow you down in comparison to "tacking downwind", which is actually a couple or even a series of very broad reaches with a gybe thrown in to change direction. The proof is most obvious in the downwind leg of a typical 'round a triangular course' race. If you tack downwind, even though you're sailing a longer distance, you will (all things being equal) arrive at the downwind mark faster than the boats that round the top mark then aim straight at the downwind mark and sail with the wind directly behind them - even if they're planing. Another bonus is that broad reaching in a planing dinghy is heaps more fun than running downwind. And crashing a water-borne dinghy is a LOT less painful than crashing an iceboat!!!

TII

 

[wanna-be]

Re: sailing faster than the wind/ making your own wind?

you can see who teh experienced sailors are because we've beat the wind everytime we sail. as others stated you have to be close or tacking. i still don't understand how one can sail into the wind faster than downwind but its true, been there, done it, every weekend...in a multi-hull. i sail circles around keel boats. and most interesting is how you pick up speed in a tack and fly-the-hull w/little to no resistence. as stated above, multi-hulls don't displace they glide.