Restoring an old 14' jon boat. (Updated 9/25/13)

[ailurion]

Hi everyone. I'm new here and just want to say thanks first to the wealth of information I've gleaned just reading around, but there has been a bit of discrepancy in some of it, and I would like some clarification as well as guidance in my project so it goes as smoothly as possible, and ends up the best quality. So I suppose first I should show you what I am working with:

Like I said in the title it's a 14' Jon boat, the brand is DeSoto Mfg. and Supply Co. Inc. which is now defunct, the boat seems to be of good quality despite its apparent age:

If anyone can tell me anything about this particular model, such as the year or original specifications I would really appreciate it.

I have stripped it down of all the odds and ends that were added over the years by previous owners and washed it out. It is almost ready for sanding and primer outside of a few concerns I have. I plan on sanding, primer, sealing, painting, lining the hull, decking, carpeting, and rebuilding the transom. So I have questions about almost all of it:

1.) Question sufficiently answered through feedback and research. I will be using zinc chromate primer.

2.) Question sufficiently answered through feedback and personal decisiveness, I will use a sealer on the rivets.

3.) Question sufficiently answered through feedback. Paint on bed-liners are a waste of money and time.

4.) Question sufficiently answered through feedback. I decided to replace the old foam with polystyrene insulation foam.

5.) Question sufficiently answered through feedback and personal decisiveness. I decided for the transom I would remove the rivets from the top lip of the boat, and pull it out so I can construct a one piece transom. I've also decided to forego the marine grade ply since I will be sufficiently coating and reinforcing it with the proper resins. The A/C Fir ply is acceptable.

6.) Question sufficiently answered through research and personal decisiveness. I will be coating the decking in epoxy resin.

7.) Question sufficiently answered through feedback and personal decisiveness. I will be decking the entire bow for storage and a casting deck, the seats, and the floor between the middle and back seat. A second storage area is a possibility. I will lay cut sheets on 3/4" polystyrene foam over the water channels (keeping them open), and under the decking to add flotation and lessen the chances of debris getting in under the deck.

I think that is it for now, I am open to other suggestions and ideas that would make things easier or better in the long run. Thanks for your time guys.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Restoring an old 14' Jon boat, questions!

Re: Restoring an old 14' Jon boat, questions!

Welcome to iboats

This might be of interest:

Appears to have been a part of the Jake Newsome boat line

Good luck w/ your project

Prep the aluminum, ZC/SE paint & the alumiprep/Alodine have all been used.

Gluvit will be insurance against leaks, Coat-it is another choice

NO BEDLINER! IMHO, nothing of value gained, plus w/ 1 200lb guy, a motor & fuel, you don't want ANY extra weight w/ a 345lb limit. None, I wouldn't put a deck in either......

You'll have to remove the knee brace (bottom of the hull rivets) or the gunwale rivets (highest point on the boat above water) to get a new full size plywood transom installed. Have to decide which you'd rather do. The knee brace is a major structural element, if the rivets holding it to the bottom of the hull are in good shape, I don't think I'd remove them, mostly because they're thru the bottom of the hull. If they aren't in good shape, it's probably fewer rivets then the # you'll have to remove from the gunwale & trim.

What motor will you be hanging off the back? A small 5-10hp motor?

Where & when will you be boating? Running in Nov-March in Michigan in the river, I'd do whatever is necessary to gain access to the compromised bench foam, remove & replace it. Cutting a 'hatch' in the topside, or removing the rivets holding that aluminum skin in place.

Local shallow, still water pond?


Decking & carpet over the top of the benches?

 

[ailurion]

Re: Restoring an old 14' Jon boat, questions!

Re: Restoring an old 14' Jon boat, questions!

Welcome to iboats

This might be of interest:

Appears to have been a part of the Jake Newsome boat line

Good luck w/ your project

Prep the aluminum, ZC/SE paint & the alumiprep/Alodine have all been used.

Gluvit will be insurance against leaks, Coat-it is another choice

NO BEDLINER! IMHO, nothing of value gained, plus w/ 1 200lb guy, a motor & fuel, you don't want ANY extra weight w/ a 345lb limit. None, I wouldn't put a deck in either......

You'll have to remove the knee brace (bottom of the hull rivets) or the gunwale rivets (highest point on the boat above water) to get a new full size plywood transom installed. Have to decide which you'd rather do. The knee brace is a major structural element, if the rivets holding it to the bottom of the hull are in good shape, I don't think I'd remove them, mostly because they're thru the bottom of the hull. If they aren't in good shape, it's probably fewer rivets then the # you'll have to remove from the gunwale & trim.

What motor will you be hanging off the back? A small 5-10hp motor?

Where & when will you be boating? Running in Nov-March in Michigan in the river, I'd do whatever is necessary to gain access to the compromised bench foam, remove & replace it. Cutting a 'hatch' in the topside, or removing the rivets holding that aluminum skin in place.

Local shallow, still water pond?


Decking & carpet over the top of the benches?

Hello and thank you.

I will not be using anything but a trolling motor. It did come with a gas engine, but it will never be a necessity as I will be taking this to local lakes, ponds, and the Delaware river, almost all of which are non-gas powered only anyway.

I am one 150lb guy, but will often be towing another 130lb woman, or 150lb male. I would like to deck and carpet over all 3 seats, and the floor, as well as add the casting deck and storage, however weight was my concern when considering so much additional decking. I've seen some mods that did similar decks on 12' boats, but each one is different I am sure.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Restoring an old 14' Jon boat, questions!

Re: Restoring an old 14' Jon boat, questions!

It's about the weight limit of the boat. I don't know what the limits were on the 12ft'rs you've seen, but they are probably close to overweight before anyone gets in the boat, if they are built & rated similarly to yours.

It really doesn't take long geared for cruising or fishing, w/ a battery, you & the Admiral (married or not, they are the Admirals. Most know it....) to reach 345lbs. Just the 2 of you & the battery, will probably already be more then 300. W/ no gear, coolers, ice etc & no added weight of ply.

Occasionally on moving water.

Only you can determine if it's too much weight. Figure out exactly what you'd like to do. Fab what you can out of the boat and weigh it all, see what it totals.

Not that I suggest it, think it's a good idea, or that it's remotely accurate, but let's 'assume' boat makers under estimate what weight their boat can safely be loaded with. If the tag says 345lbs, for the purpose of this example, I'll pick a 20% under estimate. To leave a margin of error, I'll use only half of that, and add 10% back to the original tag weight. So w/ the additional 35lbs, I'll 'assume' your boat is actually safe to operate w/ 380lbs aboard.

You 150
Admiral 130
trolling motor 10
trolling battery 35
cooler 10
fishing gear 5

Totals: 340lbs

10lbs for a trolling motor isn't much, esp w/ the wiring needed to reach the battery
35lbs is a very small group 24 trolling battery, I don't know alot about trolling batteries, but I do know you want as big a battery as you can afford & your boat is capable of carrying.
15lbs for cooler, it's contents, and all your fishing gear isn't much

Carry an anchor(s)?
PFD's
Any additional clothing & boots you may be wearing beyond what you wear when you check your weight

For that stuff ^^^ lets add 20lbs: For your extra clothing weight & a PFD, @10lbs for the 2 of you, and a typical jon boat mushroom anchor weighs @10lbs (a river use mushroom easily weighs 20lbs).

So that's another 20lbs.

Adjusted total: 360lbs

Water weighs 8lbs/gal, will there ever be any water in the boat while it's in use?

W/ your 150lb buddy, you're maxed out w/ NO mods....

Will ALL of your additional mods add more then 20lbs to the total?

Even if the answer is yes, you'll be at or below the 'new' 380lb that is OVER the recommended weight the boat maker & the USCG rated it to be safely be operated while loaded. And again, I don't suggest assuming the under estimating of the safe operable weight limit, I don't think its a good idea, and I definitely wouldn't expect that the assumption is even remotely accurate.

I wouldn't, my previous post & that ^^^^ is why I wouldn't, but it is your boat & you are free to mod it as you see fit.

Depending on where you boat, don't be surprised if a F&W/DNR officer tickets you for unsafe operation or overloading beyond the posted USCG limits for your vessel.

If the unthinkable happens, don't be surprised when you're charged w/ those same offenses in addition to whatever is applicable, your insurance refuses to pay claims, and those harmed (or their family) files against you personally for the exact same reasons.

Not w/ my family & friends aboard, even in warm climate, still waters w/ experienced swimmers.

Perhaps do a little cleanup & rehab on the 14ft'r and it's trailer. Sell it & shop for a larger capacity 14ft'r or a 15ft'r.

Boat resto & boat safely

 

[ailurion]

Re: Restoring an old 14' Jon boat, questions!

Re: Restoring an old 14' Jon boat, questions!

Perhaps do a little cleanup & rehab on the 14ft'r and it's trailer. Sell it & shop for a larger capacity 14ft'r or a 15ft'r.

Boat resto & boat safely

Sorry man, I should have been more clear. The max rating with engine, gear, and people is 510. The 345 is just the max body weight for 2-3 people. :joyous:

Worst-case scenario I'd just restore it, and paint it, and forget the decking. It's my first boat, and really I don't need anything fancy. I just thought it would be cool to do a resto/mod.

Would 510 give me more breathing room?

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Restoring an old 14' Jon boat, questions!

Re: Restoring an old 14' Jon boat, questions!

Hey, 155lbs more room :joyous: Just not w/ you, the Admiral & your buddy all aboard.....

Carry on :facepalm:

Post up some pix of what you plan to do. You can use MS Paint to 'draw' on this pix you posted:

Just don't forget to address the flotation & add some to cover the weight of your mods...

You should still consider using a scale & estimating your total weight once finished.

 

[ailurion]

Re: Restoring an old 14' Jon boat, questions!

Re: Restoring an old 14' Jon boat, questions!

Hey, 155lbs more room :joyous: Just not w/ you, the Admiral & your buddy all aboard.....

Carry on :facepalm:

Post up some pix of what you plan to do. You can use MS Paint to 'draw' on this pix you posted:

Just don't forget to address the flotation & add some to cover the weight of your mods...

You should still consider using a scale & estimating your total weight once finished.

Haha, yes, I only ever plan on having two people on at once.

That's a good idea. I will actually get in to Photoshop tomorrow and post up what I would like it to look like when finished.

I am definitely going to look in to the foam issue tomorrow, and get some replacement stuff. I was actually thinking about adding some more as well. Thanks again for the help.

 

[ailurion]

Re: Restoring an old 14' Jon boat, questions!

Re: Restoring an old 14' Jon boat, questions!

Well as promised here is a quick Photoshop with a (very) rough idea of what I'd like to do with the carpeting:

I also started sanding. Here's some of the progress there:

There are a lot of scrapes and dings in this old vessel. How's the sand job look? I am using 100 grit aluminum oxide paper and an orbital sander. I need to get a sanding sponge to get in around the rivets better. How particular do I need to be with this sand job? The boat appears to never have been painted.

I was also out at the flea market today looking for some oars. I did find one and paid a paltry sum of $3 for it. It's a nice oar that needs a little TLC as well and will be good to go:

Lastly I found a Penn Longbeach 67 for $5 in pretty decent condition, and I'm gonna clean that up eventually. All in all a pretty good day. :joyous:

 

[ailurion]

Re: Restoring an old 14' Jon boat, questions!

Re: Restoring an old 14' Jon boat, questions!

Here's a bigger version of the Photoshop carpet job:

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Restoring an old 14' Jon boat, questions!

Re: Restoring an old 14' Jon boat, questions!

Decking in a flat bottom jon boat is just a waste of money and gives stuff a place to collect and hide.

Bedliner is not recommended since it will make any future repairs a nightmare. There is no benefit to it at all. It is known to separate from aluminum. It is not used here on the restorations and is seldom even addressed anymore.

You can paint it if you like and I do recommend zinc chromate as a primer. There is no need to sand between coats and just a light dusting is all that is needed. You could even polish the hull if you like........ people have done that too.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Restoring an old 14' Jon boat, questions!

Re: Restoring an old 14' Jon boat, questions!

Decking in a flat bottom jon boat is just a waste of money and gives stuff a place to collect and hide.

I agree.

You can deck and carpet the bow area for storage and plywood and carpet the seats and still have a nice boat, plus you'll save on the weight and money.

 

[ailurion]

Re: Restoring an old 14' Jon boat, questions!

Re: Restoring an old 14' Jon boat, questions!

Decking in a flat bottom jon boat is just a waste of money and gives stuff a place to collect and hide.

Bedliner is not recommended since it will make any future repairs a nightmare. There is no benefit to it at all. It is known to separate from aluminum. It is not used here on the restorations and is seldom even addressed anymore.

You can paint it if you like and I do recommend zinc chromate as a primer. There is no need to sand between coats and just a light dusting is all that is needed. You could even polish the hull if you like........ people have done that too.

I agree.

You can deck and carpet the bow area for storage and plywood and carpet the seats and still have a nice boat, plus you'll save on the weight and money.

Thank you gents.

The money is not really much of a factor at this point for the decking as I already bought the ply and have the carpet left over from a pool deck. I guess epoxy resin is the last thing to buy, but I need that for the transom anyway. Hardware is free as well.

I do agree about the potential for debris to get caught between the deck and bottom of the boat. I thought it might give a nice finished look and forego the necessity of sanding and painting the entire inside of the boat as well. I could get away with giving it a good cleaning.

Noted on the bedliner and zinc chromate advice. :joyous:

 

[ailurion]

Re: Restoring an old 14' Jon boat, questions!

Re: Restoring an old 14' Jon boat, questions!

So I didn't get much done today work wise, but I did do some shopping. I managed to finally find Zinc Chromate at $15 a can at local marine repair shop. The guy was really cool and helpful. He sold me two emergency adult life vests at discount too which I was in need of.

I went to Home Depot after and bought a 2" x 4' x 8' piece of polystyrene foam insulation for seat foam replacement. I also picked up some rivets, a rivet gun and fiberglass resin. My current plan is to have the sanding, seats, and transom done by Saturday so I can take her out for a test float before painting next week, weather permitting.

Cutting the first seat open was easy, but getting the old foam out was not. I ended up using a reciprocating saw to cut it out in pieces. What a mess that was. Thank heavens for a shop vac! The mouse and hornet damage was not as bad as I expected, but they did manage to eat away a good 5 inches from the left side of the foam piece. After cleaning it all out I cut a piece of foam off and stuffed it in under the channel brace to see how it would fit:

It was really snug and took a little filing down to get in tight. Rather than have the foam sit up off the boat floor on top of the braces, I decided to just space out the bottom row of foam so that the water can still move freely through the channels uninhibited by the foam. This will give me an extra 2" x 10" x 30" of foam per seat approximately. I also decided, in order to alleviate the potential issue of debris collecting under my future decking, I would lay strips of 3/4" foam in all the space between the bottom of the boat and the plywood decking. The only open spaces in the bottom of the boat will be the water channels, and along the edges where there is no decking. I thought of notching the decking and cutting it on a bevel so it sits flush against the edge of the boat to really lessen the chances of anything getting down in the bottom, but that may be overkill. I'm not overly concerned about debris getting in under the decking.

Tomorrow will be finishing the foam job in all 3 seats, and then sanding/chroming them to prepare for adding the deck/carpet.

I've decided for my paint job I am going with:

Sanding
Phosphoric acid wash (replacing 50/50 vinegar)
Zinc Chromate
Thinned Alkyd Oil based top coat with added hardener.

I am probably going to do the front, back, and hull of the boat dark gray, and the sides slate gray/blue. I would also like to paint jig eyes on the front of the boat, on both sides. However I am wondering if that will scare off the fish. :facepalm:

 

[ailurion]

Re: Restoring an old 14' jon boat, questions!

Re: Restoring an old 14' jon boat, questions!

Another day of getting after it, and another day of learning from mistakes. I started off by connecting with a guy through a work friend, who paints small airplanes for a living. I'm still unsure of what kind of paint to go with, that fits my budget and also fits my goal of making it last. I was hoping he could give me an idea since he works with aluminum literally every day. The conversation went well until the part where I told him I would be rolling it on with high density foam rollers. Apparently the urethanes used for airplanes is very thin and made to be spray applied. He applauded my research on the steps necessary to get a good adhesion to the metal (thanks iBoats.com forums), but said he couldn't really point me to a good paint unless I was spraying.

One thing he was adamant about however was the use of Alodine after your phosphoric acid wash. For a second I thought maybe I was on the phone with Yacht Dr. (just messin' YD!) when he was really emphasizing its use before priming. So I am without a doubt going to add Alodine to my painting routine. He also recommended wiping down the boat with isopropyl alcohol after the Alodine using clean rags and not to stop until the rag stays completely clean wherever you wipe it, followed by a water test on the surface to be 100% sure the boat is ready to be primed. All in all his reiteration of many things I have read here already was reinforcing the idea that prep work is 90% of the battle in getting a solid paint job. So now my finalized painting procedure is as follows:

1. Sand (Started)
2. Phorspohric acid etch
3. Alodine
4. Isopropyl Alcohol
5. Zinc Chromate
6. Paint

The hard part will be finding a day where I can complete steps 2-6 in one sitting all the way to the first coat of paint.

Okay yeah yeah, talking is fine, but what about progress? Well I got the middle seat stuffed to the max with foam, and opened up the front seat. I found a faster technique for doing so which will make finishing the back seat tomorrow a breeze. I thought for sure the middle seat would be the worst for nesting and foam damage, but the bow seat took the cake:

Yikes, on top of the fact there was a ton more nesting, there was significantly less foam and it was very beaten. The good news was, I could gain flotation by stuffing this seat to the brim as I did the middle one. Some measuring and cutting, fitting and stuffing later, I have two refoamed seats:

Ah, that's better. Tomorrow is the last seat and then begins the challenge of patterning, cutting, and coating my first transom. I will be using A/C Fir Ply 3/4", epoxy resin to seal the wood, and then glass cloth and resin to reinforce it. Eventually I would like to PB in whatever spaces along the edges are not completely fitted, but that will not be necessary right away.

 

[ailurion]

Re: Restoring an old 14' jon boat. (Updated 9/10/13)

Re: Restoring an old 14' jon boat. (Updated 9/10/13)

Quick question, I don't have a picture of it at the moment but the previous owner drilled a 3/4" (approximate) hole in the transom skin for drainage and made a makeshift plug from a bolt, caulk and washers. Should I fill this in and add a proper drain tube, or fill it and not have one at all? The boat did not have one stock.

Thanks men.

 

[java230]

Re: Restoring an old 14' jon boat. (Updated 9/10/13)

Re: Restoring an old 14' jon boat. (Updated 9/10/13)

Drain tube is nice if you feel comfortable adding one. Nice to be able to get on plane and just drain out any water that might be there. Also for storage its very nice to pull it and not worry about rain.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Restoring an old 14' jon boat. (Updated 9/10/13)

Re: Restoring an old 14' jon boat. (Updated 9/10/13)

A transom drain is always a good idea... and it should be pulled out whenever the boat is out of the water.

Leaving the plug in is what has killed so many of the boats we see on this forum, the boat fills with water and saturates the foam and rots the decking. People leave the plug in because they don't want to forget it and not put it in before they launch, bad idea... very bad.

 

[ailurion]

Re: Restoring an old 14' jon boat. (Updated 9/10/13)

Re: Restoring an old 14' jon boat. (Updated 9/10/13)

Drain tube is nice if you feel comfortable adding one. Nice to be able to get on plane and just drain out any water that might be there. Also for storage its very nice to pull it and not worry about rain.

A transom drain is always a good idea... and it should be pulled out whenever the boat is out of the water.

Leaving the plug in is what has killed so many of the boats we see on this forum, the boat fills with water and saturates the foam and rots the decking. People leave the plug in because they don't want to forget it and not put it in before they launch, bad idea... very bad.

Yeah these are my sentiments on it as well. I am going to add a proper one this coming week. For now I will just tip the boat over to drain it as it is actually raining here today, and there is already about a foot of water in the bottom. Luckily there isn't much to saturate or rot since it is stripped at the moment.

One more question then, if I do plan on adding a drain plug, should I cut the hole in the transom now before I coat it with epoxy and then bore the transom skin later for the tube, or can I just bore both of them later and then re-epoxy the transom around the edge of the drain pipe hole?

Speaking of transoms, I have it shaped and cut, sanded and edged waiting to be coated (it started raining before I could pre-drill hardware holes) as my epoxy did not show up today. Hopefully tomorrow.

I also cut out all the seats, and all the carpet, but they are also awaiting a coat of epoxy before attaching the carpet, and fastening them to the seats:

Tomorrow will be a day of coating and some more sanding. I am trying to get her water ready by the end of the weekend so we can take her for a test float before going in to the painting and decking phases.

Edit: Just ordered a drain pipe and plug. Going to go the route of homemade flange tool since they are stupid expensive for what they are.

 

[ailurion]

Re: Restoring an old 14' jon boat. (Updated 9/12/13)

Re: Restoring an old 14' jon boat. (Updated 9/12/13)

Bad news for the weekend. My epoxy was stuck in transit and wont be here until Monday. So basically I am sitting on my cut wood until then and the test float could be as late as Wednesday. The admiral and I are disappointed we didn't get to take her out for a test drive. My 5200 arrived which is good however, and I am waiting on my order from iBoats for the drain tube and plug. I pre-drilled all of the holes in the transom and motor scuff board yesterday, and sanded down the transom skin. The old girl cleans up nicely. The JB water weld I used to plug the make shift drain hole is holding up well after sanding. The other bad news was the stainless steel hardware I obtained free of charge is either too small, or too long in length to accommodate the transom, skin, and a washer. So I guess I will end up having to spend money on that now. I am hoping to get a lot accomplished this coming week.

 

[kfa4303]

Re: Restoring an old 14' jon boat. (Updated 9/12/13)

Re: Restoring an old 14' jon boat. (Updated 9/12/13)

Coming right along.....I love the little rear deck. Are you going to use it as a poling/seating platform? Try to buy as much of the SS hardware in bulk as possible. It gets pricey quick :/ Where in Pa are you located? My family has a cabin in La Porte/Sullivan County.