Removed bearing carrier, thrust ring and reverse gear stuck inside

[kip2001]

Hi All,

I'm in the process of replacing the propeller shaft seals & oring on my alpha one gen 1. Had a nightmare of a time getting the bearing carrier out, had to drill out the ring, soaked the bearing carrier for days, heat and lots of tension from the puller finally freed it. Now the problem is the thrust ring and thus reverse gear are still inside the housing. I'm at a loss for how to get them out, there doesn't seem to be any great way to pull that ring out. For reference, I'm talking part #56/55 on this diagram:

Anyone have any ideas before I hope a marina can help me out?

Thanks!
Kip

 

[alldodge]

Hey Bt Doctur achris kenny nunez Lou have any ideas

 

[achris]

That happens quite a lot. Either tip the case up and give it a decent thump and catch the gear and ring as they fall out, or use a hook and get between the ring and the gear and drag it out like that. Then the gear should fall straight out..... Here's the tool I use.



Chris......

 

[Bt Doctur]

Usually theres no need to remove reverse to replace the prop seals

 

[harringtondav]

I don't know the Gen I Alpha, but if the carrier is the same as the Gen II, the reverse gear should be pressed in tight into the roller bearing that's pressed into the carrier. ...must have taken a hell of a pull to leave the gear behind. I would do what it takes to get the spacer plate/ring and REV gear out

If you push the carrier back over the gear you could force the gear into a tight mesh with the pinion before the gear seats on the bearing. Not good. Backlash is a must. The sealant used in assembly can be softened and removed with alcohol. Methyl or isopropyl.

If Chris's fix doesn't work, set the housing prop shaft up and flood it with alcohol. Use a long punch and work around the perimeter of the ring, again and again. The spacer ring has an O ring between it and the stop counter bore in the housing. It will flex under the punch, and the ring should finally move enough to give it up.

...haven't experienced this calamity, but this is what I'd try.

 

[kip2001]

That happens quite a lot. Either tip the case up and give it a decent thump and catch the gear and ring as they fall out, or use a hook and get between the ring and the gear and drag it out like that. Then the gear should fall straight out..... Here's the tool I use.
Chris......

I'll see what I've got for similar tools and give it a shot pulling it out. I've tried putting it prop end down and gently tapping around the perimeter of the ring as well as with the rubber mallet around the outside.

I don't know the Gen I Alpha, but if the carrier is the same as the Gen II, the reverse gear should be pressed in tight into the roller bearing that's pressed into the carrier. ...must have taken a hell of a pull to leave the gear behind. I would do what it takes to get the spacer plate/ring and REV gear out

If you push the carrier back over the gear you could force the gear into a tight mesh with the pinion before the gear seats on the bearing. Not good. Backlash is a must. The sealant used in assembly can be softened and removed with alcohol. Methyl or isopropyl.

If Chris's fix doesn't work, set the housing prop shaft up and flood it with alcohol. Use a long punch and work around the perimeter of the ring, again and again. The spacer ring has an O ring between it and the stop counter bore in the housing. It will flex under the punch, and the ring should finally move enough to give it up.

...haven't experienced this calamity, but this is what I'd try.

As far as I know the carriers are identical. My original three jaw puller idea ended up cracking the ring around the front of the barring carrier so I ended up hooking chain around the two larger supports of it. Just about when I thought there may be so much tension that I'd snap the chain, it finally dislodged. So yeah, a hell of a lot of force to get it out. I'm replacing the carrier, bearings, and obviously seals.

Is checking the backlash required if I don't remove the pinion nut/gear? (I don't have the expertise/tools to do it but I'll bring it somewhere that can if necessary) I'm getting that reverse gear out because I agree, trying to push the bearing carrier over it inside the housing is a recipe for disaster.

I think the only oring is between the thrust ring and the barring carrier, it was stuck inside the housing after I pulled the carrier out, I've already removed it.

Thanks for the tips all! I will start to give these a try and hopefully some combination there of works!

 

[Chris51280]

I believe you only need to check the backlash if you replace the gears or the forward thrust bearing. The reverse is set with the roller bearing width and the gear rides on the inner ring of the bearing. The spacer ring also sits on top of the outer ring of the bearing.

 

[Bt Doctur]

1 Why are you removing rev gear from the carrier Rev gear is pressed into the carrier untill its seated any shimming for rev gear is done with carrier shims. Just changing prop seals does not require the gear to be removed.

 

[Bt Doctur]

After re-reading your 1st post a hooked tool is used to remove the gear and collar

 

[kip2001]

I believe you only need to check the backlash if you replace the gears or the forward thrust bearing. The reverse is set with the roller bearing width and the gear rides on the inner ring of the bearing. The spacer ring also sits on top of the outer ring of the bearing.

Okay great, that was my understanding too. I read somewhere that at least for a standard rotation drive, the reverse backlash has plenty of play and doesn't need to be checked when only pulling the bearing carrier (I'm certainly no expert though).

1 Why are you removing rev gear from the carrier Rev gear is pressed into the carrier untill its seated any shimming for rev gear is done with carrier shims. Just changing prop seals does not require the gear to be removed.

After re-reading your 1st post a hooked tool is used to remove the gear and collar

Yeah I certainly didn't intend to have the reverse gear removed, my boat has always been in fresh water but who knows when the last time this carrier was removed. I'm only replacing it because it cracked when removing and I'm not putting a cracked carrier back in. So reverse gear and thrust ring will be re-used once I get them out, seals, oring, pin & ball bearings, and barring carrier are being replaced.

 

[Bt Doctur]

Think I have a few carriers , pm me

 

[harringtondav]

Is checking the backlash required if I don't remove the pinion nut/gear?

No. The same set up to check forward backlash is used for the reverse gear, but there is no adjustment. The backlash spec is generous, .028" - .052". Also you're right about O ring placement. ...mental parts diagram not working for me late at night.

Another forum technique may help removing the ring. Heat the housing very hot with a heat gun. Then spray the ring with an aerosol part freezing spray. Link below for an example. I've read here that keyboard cleaning spray will also freeze parts. Then tap/pry to see if the ring loosens.

Press the new needle bearing to .83" depth from the carrier face. Don't bottom it or you could damage it. Inner seal to .39". Seal lips/garter spring to the inside. The shielded outer seal drives flush with the face of the carrier.

The spec sealant for the carrier is Merc "Perfect Seal". Permatex Aviation Gasket is the same. Coat the OD of the carrier and O ring, and the carrier bore before installation.

https://www.amazon.com/Stoner-Multi-Purpose-Freeze-Spray/dp/B0017UIB30

 

[kip2001]

Think I have a few carriers , pm me

Thanks for the offer! Fortunately I was able to get a good price on a used one in great condition w/bearings off ebay.

No. The same set up to check forward backlash is used for the reverse gear, but there is no adjustment. The backlash spec is generous, .028" - .052". Also you're right about O ring placement. ...mental parts diagram not working for me late at night.

Another forum technique may help removing the ring. Heat the housing very hot with a heat gun. Then spray the ring with an aerosol part freezing spray. Link below for an example. I've read here that keyboard cleaning spray will also freeze parts. Then tap/pry to see if the ring loosens.

Press the new needle bearing to .83" depth from the carrier face. Don't bottom it or you could damage it. Inner seal to .39". Seal lips/garter spring to the inside. The shielded outer seal drives flush with the face of the carrier.

The spec sealant for the carrier is Merc "Perfect Seal". Permatex Aviation Gasket is the same. Coat the OD of the carrier and O ring, and the carrier bore before installation.

https://www.amazon.com/Stoner-Multi-Purpose-Freeze-Spray/dp/B0017UIB30

I'll give that heat/freeze technique a try tonight, I was also thinking about making a puller with thin metal shelf clips hooked to the inside of the ring to get better pulling action.

For those seals, I assume it's okay to install them slightly further out? There's thin noticeable groove (can feel with finger nail) where the lips previously touched the shaft. I was thinking about a speedi-sleeve but just changing that position I think is a safer option since the only speedi-sleeve I see for this diameter is only 3/8" tall.

 

[harringtondav]

For those seals, I assume it's okay to install them slightly further out? /QUOTE]

Don't let my anal get you overthinking seal driving ...I have the drivers and dimensions.. Use a socket that just slips inside the carrier bore and tap the inner seal in until it's in about 1/2 of the thickness of the outer shielded seal. ....lips, garter spring in. Then tap the outer shielded seal in w/in 1/8" of flush with the carrier face using the same socket. Then use something flat to drive the outer seal home and square with the face.

Before you drive in the outer seal coat the OD of the seal with red Loctite. ...away from my manual now, but a lower strength red will be OK. Pack between the seals with Merc 24C w/teflon if you can get a tube. If not, any grease.

When you finally get the ring removed, note a small spacer ring in the forward counterbore in the REV gear. Don't loose it. Tack it in place w/grease before you insert the carrier assembly.

 

[kip2001]

Hi All,

So I gave up on getting the thrust ring and shift shaft bushing out myself, brought it to a marine mechanic and took him an hour and a half to do that plus clean all the crud on the threads for me. Saved me plenty of cuss words! The mechanic did say he's impressed I was able to pull the carrier out given that there was enough corrosion to hold the ring in place... so there's that too haha.

The barring carrier I purchased already has the needle bearing and double oil seals installed so I just have to press the roller bearing/washer onto the reverse gear and push that into the bearing carrier and then reassemble everything and pressure test! Hopefully that's all the easy part!