Oh Mr. President, what now?

JB

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Re: Oh Mr. President, what now?

Hi, Magster.<br /><br />If you think there is no evidence you are pretty naive.<br /><br />Do you think that what the news media broadcast is all there is to know?<br /><br />GW has hard, but secret, evidence. He is trying hard to get the same proof from a publishable source.<br /><br />Whether he gets it or not, he will do what has to be done to protect the free world.
 

12Footer

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Re: Oh Mr. President, what now?

Nice try. We are Americans first. You know, "home of the free---Land of the brave"...All that rot.<br />We never invaded Japan. We co-existed with the USSR for 50years,and didn't "take them over".<br />I firmly believe my president and his administration have the proof. Only question is, would it pacify the French? Would Putin (SP) agree that it was suficiant?<br />What about our operatives who are providing this proof?? Are they so expendable to you,that you would risk thier lifes at a full-disclosure?<br />I would rather wait until it is possable to show the world the smoking gun ,(preferably smoking from our neutralizing weapons fire), than to have our soldiers die from betrayal! Now go away,or I shall taunt you a second time-a!
 

Bondo

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Re: Oh Mr. President, what now?

YEP !!!<br /> I say, CRUSH Saddam, Then support a Democracy.....<br />Then all we have to do is, Have the Chinese Kick north Korea back into line....
 

plywoody

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Re: Oh Mr. President, what now?

I hope you are correct, JB, and that history will prove this a correct action. I have my doubts.<br />We have gone under this theory of "trust our leaders, they know what they are doing" before, and now with Johnson's memoirs released, he confided early on that he knew the Viet Nam war was unwinnable, as did Robert McNamara in his book. It is not the only example.<br /><br />I suppose I would feel just a bit better if we would share this secret intellligence we are alleged to have with the UN inspectors, or that our President would at least pretend that he hopes the UN Inspections are successful.<br /><br />Or that our President would show at least some skill with diplomacy, and not appear to the world as a simple schoolyard bully.<br /><br />When he starts his administration with his "axis of evil speech" and then go on to West Point and announces his "Bush Doctrine" where we will preemptively strike any we percieve as a threat, what is a country like North Korea to think? And now that there are troubles, what is this administration doing? Telling everyone this can be handled diplomatically, yet not even talking to the North Koreans, and apparently leaving the talking to the governor of New Mexico, for crying out loud!<br /><br />And asking for a reprimand for North Korea abandoning their treaty, just after we abandoned the ABM treaty so that we could pursue a multiple hundred billion dollars Missle defense system against a threat that is arguably no longer relevant and no longer even exists with a technology that I have yet to find a competent scientist willing to say that it will ever work.<br /><br />I hope you are right. I hope history proves that these were just the right moves at just the right time.<br /><br />It takes a giant leap of faith, I think, to really believe that--far more faith than I can muster.<br /><br />John
 

plywoody

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Re: Oh Mr. President, what now?

Oh, and bondo, if you really think a Jeffersonian democracy is going to break out in Iraq once Saddam is gone, I think there is a bridge here in Longview for sale and I'd like to discuss terms with you!<br /><br />John
 

62_Kiwi

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Re: Oh Mr. President, what now?

Hi Plywoody<br /><br />If you check the history books you'll see that it was President Kennedy who signed the orders to go to war in Vietnam. President Johnson was never a supporter of the war and only inherited it off JFK (tragically). It's very hard to back a country out of war once it's started. I suspect his attitude was a small part of the problem as to why things turned out so badly.<br /><br />Fighting the spread of communism was always the right thing to do. The way the war was fought in Vietnam was not. The soldiers were heros, the politicans who should have been supporting them were not, in my humble opinion.<br /><br />Here's a quote from JFK's inaugural address, which sort of shows where he was coming from;<br /><br />"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty."<br />
 

roscoe

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Re: Oh Mr. President, what now?

I believe the evidence is there.<br />I also don't trust the UN inspectors. Try reading up on who they are, where they came from, who appointed them to the UN, and you will see what I mean.<br />The evidence will be presented for all to see, when the troops are in place, and just before they attack. The UN inspectors will be directed to the evidence and they will confirm, and then they will leave in a hurry. Why do you think they have the longer range helicopters to use now? This is their way out just before the fighting starts.<br /><br />In the end, there is nothing that "we" are going to do about it, nor the press, or the Congress.<br /><br />Hope for the best; Prepare for the worst.
 

durk187

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Re: Oh Mr. President, what now?

10 reasons we SHOULD go to war. This is for the uninformed anti-war foke with a short memory. :mad: <br /><br />1. Generally, Hussein is a proven threat to international security, he is interested in developiong chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons and has shown a willigness to use such weapons on Iraq's neighbors but also against Iraq's Kurdish population. Iraq has to be removed as a threat now before it has the ability to lash out at Israel, Saudia Arabia, Kuwait or US troops stationed in the region.<br /><br />2. Alternatives to invasion won't solve the problem. UN inspectors were unable to certify that Iraq had disarmed its WMD programs due to Iraqi obstructions. Since the inspectors left Iraq in 1998 Hussein has had considerable time to rebuild his WMD program and to improve his ability to hide critical facilities.<br /><br />3. If Iraq were to acquire Weapons of Mass Destruction it could threaten regional stability and deter any potential military action against Iraq. Hussein and his gorvenment believe that it was their possession of chemical and biological weapons that deterred the Coalition Forces from invading Iraq during Desert Storm. A WMD capable Iraq would become a regional hegemon.<br /><br />4. Winning the war would be easy and the costs would be minimal. The Iraqi military was devestated during the Guld War and has continued to suffer after 11 years of sanctions and other military actions. The United States and its allies can achieve their goals with relatively few troops and costs can be measured as low as $20 billion.<br /><br />5. Removing Hussein would be consistent with the goals of the war on terrorism. Iraq has a track record of supporting terrorism throughout the Middle East. A change in regime would eliminate a state sponsor of terrorism. <br /><br />6. The Iraqi people would support this action. They live under a brutal and repressive regime with little or no true freedoms. <br /><br />7. A democratic Iraqi government would help with the Middle East peace process. Moderate Iraqi regime would discourage militants and boost the credibility of moderate Palestinians who are interested in peace. Iraq financially supports the families of suicide bombers in Palestine, a change of regime could bring an end to this practice. <br /><br />8. If Hussein develops chemical, biological or nuclear weapons he could give the weapons to terrorist organization who could use those materials against the United States or its allies. <br /><br />9. Toppling Hussein will have little or no negative impacts the region.<br /><br />10. How many sanctions did he break? 16 Each one broken has given us the oppurtunity to take appropiate action. Enough is enough, thank god we have a leader in power that has the balls to call a man out.<br /><br />As the infamous Japanese general said after the attack of perl harbor, "Im afraid all we have done is awoken a sleeping giant". May this be true to al queda, iraq, north korea or any other nation that threatens our way of life.
 

Ross J

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Re: Oh Mr. President, what now?

It is this Kiwi's impression that one never advertises to the world all the evidence one has for obvious reasons. If that were done then a lot of 'behind the scenes' folk would die, think Russia during the cold war - how many operatives died because folk wanted proof of claims that the administration couldn't possibly make public, but bowed to the pressure of the media. Huge cost there.<br />This time round GWB appears to have done his homework and obviously intends to keep the casuality rate down for 'friendlies'. A lesson learnt the hard way in earlier battles.<br />I think most peoples concern stems not from the impending attack on Saddam H., but on the threat that the free world in general will suffer some backlash from the Moslem peoples.<br />It is not My impression here in New Zealand that this is so. I work with folk from all racres and religions including Moslem and have no concern whatsoever from these friends.<br />I feel the threat comes from Teleban operatives still protected whereever they are, working to re-organise and start up anew!<br />In the South Pacific the threat of terrorism remains high and I know folk (including my children) who have changed travel plans to avoid it. This is in turn harming the very nations who need tourism dollars to remain financially independant. Ergo, if you strip away the ability to make an income and present the nation with alternative support then groups like the Teleban may well get a stronghold eventually.<br />Go, beat the crap out of Saddam. And give to the people of Iraq the freedom to choose without threat the way of the future.<br />Ross
 

Hooty

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Re: Oh Mr. President, what now?

Hans Blix and his inspection teams are lost as geese. The only way they found their way to Iraq was someone else was flying the airplane.<br /><br />c/6<br /><br />Hooty
 

Ross J

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Re: Oh Mr. President, what now?

Well said Hooty, if I said I was sending a couple of my mates around to your house to search for something, don't you think you'd make bloody sure it wasn't there?<br />Ross
 

magster65

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Re: Oh Mr. President, what now?

It wasn't meant to be an argument... just a topic. My apologies.
 

JB

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Re: Oh Mr. President, what now?

No apologies required, Magster.<br /><br />Opinions, courteously presented, are welcome.<br /><br />We just need to avoid wording that stirs a fight.
 

SCO

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Re: Oh Mr. President, what now?

The morning programs addressed Korea. The axis declaration by Pres is cited as a failed policy that has inflamed that problem. I think they (N Korea) is sweating it and will close shop on the illicit activity. Letting all the bad guys know well get them has them scurrying around like rats in a trap, showing their hand.
 

plywoody

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Re: Oh Mr. President, what now?

FTR, Kennedy put in advisors in Viet Nam. It would have been a relatively simple thing to remove them.<br />Johnson was the one to escalate that war with troops.<br />It is one of the many conspiracy theories regarding the Kennedy assassination, that somehow the military industrial complex knew Kennedy was going to back out of Viet Nam, and they could get Johnson to escalate it, meaning lots of revenue for these guys and their companies.<br />Not that I ascribe to this theory, but only to point out it is one of the many theories out there.<br /><br />And I think all you folks are wildly misinformed regarding Iraq and NK, among other things. Time will tell, as it seems an inexorable progression of events at the present. You all seem pretty glib at sending your neighbors kid into harm's way--I hope it is all worth it.
 

12Footer

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Re: Oh Mr. President, what now?

Yeah, Magster, no appologies needed for a good clean debate.<br /> :p
 
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