new round of immigration

mattttt25

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maybe a troll, but a true story...<br /><br />i had to travel to jersey yesterday for work, to put eyes on some terrazzo product that will end up in the project i'm managing. met the sub and walked his shop. great guy, 100% italian, and proud of his work and business.<br /><br />before i left, he talked to me a bit about his workers. they were all hispanic. he explained that he used to runa huge company that produced and installed terrazzo all over the east coast. had over 100 guys working in his shop and installing.<br /><br />after a few years, he couldn't handle it. his workers, all "american", were lazy, problematic, etc. he consistently caught them lying, loafing off, smoking dope on business property, and showing up late for work after long nights of drinking. if he needed them to work overtime, they had every excuse in the book. there were a few exceptions, but most of his workforce behaved this way.<br /><br />he gave it up and decided to only produce the product. he was able to scale back his workforce to about 10 guys who happen to be all hispanic. he said they always show up on time, work hard every day, and jump at the chance to work overtime. no problems at all. and they show up each morning with a smile on their face, the most important thing to him. his business is doing great and he's happy.<br /><br />he explained it as the new round of immigration. in his opinion, the hispanics (and other ethnic groups that are "taking over" our jobs) are no different than the italians, irish, and germans that populated this country just a few generations ago. they come here for a chance, and work hard to be successful.<br /><br />i was impressed by his story and learned a little from someone that deals with this issue personally.
 

samagee

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Re: new round of immigration

EDIT: Thou shalt not bash, Samagee.
 

Link

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Re: new round of immigration

Afternoon Matt<br />Ive seen that happen many times. Someone starts a business (doesn't matter what type) and does very well until they get big enough that they can't handle every detail them self but still try. The hiring of a good manager and a couple foreman could solve a lot of those problems. But he is happy doing what he is doing and sounds like a good work environment so all is well.<br />Glad you had a good time.
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

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Re: new round of immigration

Well, I am not a big business, but do have 10 working for me and I have found just the opposite.<br /><br />Maybe it's the type of job where they have to deal with people face to face, don't know, but the one's that are, we shall say, non-American tend to not show up for work or call in sick, or not call or anything, just quit.<br /><br />I can not have that.<br /><br />Now I am not going to say every one that I have had was a goldmine, but for the biggest part, the American person was most reliable.<br /><br />I do have 2 that I depend on a lot to take care of things when I am gone and that helps out a great deal.<br /><br />One more thing I have to add, it's real hard to find good workers nowadays.
 

Elmer Fudge

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Re: new round of immigration

There are lots of folks who want to have a job but don't want to work :mad:
 

mikeandronda

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Re: new round of immigration

Well I do have to say the mexican workers on our site, bricklayers, stone masons and Sheetrockers tend to be the best of the bunch. ( I work in construction as a foreman ) We never have a problem getting them to show up on time and they work fast and hard. I do have to say it irks me to no end when they dont speak english around me.Its like the american workers are like " I will work when and how I want to" and once they start a job they take their time and your lucky if they finish on time. (and some case finish at all) Its a shame but these people seem to value their jobs where alot of the american workers dont. I guess they feel the money they are paid is enough insentive to come to work the next day. All I can say is Dang it......if they all worked like that my job would be alot easier. I also understand in many areas it is probably alot different.
 

PW2

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Re: new round of immigration

I always get a kick out of some of these.<br /><br />I get people looking for jobs all the time, but my favorite is the one that has no education, and no training, and informs me he wants a management job.<br />I always tell them that there is only one job here where you can make lots of money, don't need to know anything, can come late and leave early, keep your feet up on the desk and not do anything all day...and that is my job, and as of now, it isn't available.<br /><br />We hire lots of people, managed to weed a bunch out so that now we have a pretty dependable stable crew, and have found out that ethnicity, or any other easily identifiable trait, rarely enters into the equation. There are good ones and bad ones everywhere...<br />And if you find that you only have bad ones, the first place to look is at supervision, as a bad supervisor can turn an otherwise good employee into a bad one in a hurry.
 

mattttt25

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Re: new round of immigration

mike, being in construction myself, i also tend to agree. that's why it was interesting to me to listen to his story- i sort of understood where he was coming from.<br /><br />my one project is a disaster right now for multiple reasons- unrealistic schedule, $6m in change orders, lots of unforeseens, etc. the prime is doing everything possible to finish on time, cutting every corner and working lots of overtime. while the mostly "american" workers go on with their days as usual, usually talking about how we won't get there on time, the extras the prime hired are different- the cleaners/laborers from russia that work two shifts every day bust their a*s every mintue. the hispanic and greek painters who have never worked together split up the work and knock out decks faster than we could imagine.<br /><br />i think there are two points from my posts. first, it's sad what our young people are like these days. the "american" way that made this country great just seems to have gone away. the people i see every day just don't have it. they are more concerned with their salary, benefits, vacation, and what their job description says- better not ask them to do anything beyond it.<br /><br />the other point is what the terrazzo guy said about these groups of people from other countries. i fully agree they are no different than many of our grandparents and great-grandparents- immigrants looking to start a new life with the morals and work ethic to succeed.
 

mikeandronda

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Re: new round of immigration

I in no way endorse hireing illegel aliens.I do however believe in hireing the best people for a job. Im not racist in any way but I do believe there are differences in culture outside as well as in our country. Do many hispanics work any harder then many other races because of their nationality....NO......Do they work harder because they know they have it so freakin good here compared to where they are from ....I would say...YES.....We as a people have it made here. Everybody has a chance to make it here regardless of race. I am a highschool dropout who did nothing but party for most of my life, But you know what? I got my act together decided not to be a loser anymore and every single day I do my best to complete my job, and if that takes going the extra mile so be it.I make good money and I recieve respect from my employers as well as my work crews.Integrity s/p? is the key to sucess. Work hard and do it right the first time. This something I see with these immigrants. We need to instill this type of thinking in our youth today and I believe we wont have to worry about losing our jobs to immigrants.
 

Mr.Ladyfish

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Re: new round of immigration

I agree completely with what you said Mike. The only thing I would add is we need to instill some integrity at the corporate level. Too many at that level are screwing their employees and the country in the name of greed.
 

mscher

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Re: new round of immigration

Anyone that has visited Mexico will see that the lazy mexican under his sombrarro does not exist (maybe never did)<br /><br />I don't think I saw anyone standing still the whole time we where there.<br /><br />Their motto appeared to be - "if you want to eat, you better work - hard" <br /><br />Seems like we heard that one somewhere else long ago.<br /><br />Enterprising people. Maybe we can learn from them.<br /><br />Marty
 

samagee

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Re: new round of immigration

I think it looks like people are saying that we should change the labor laws here in America. I take it that we should not expect to have a life outside our work place? Live for the company and be grateful for what they do give you?
 

Stratosfied

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Re: new round of immigration

I work for a major papermill in the powerhouse, I am a member of the IBEW # 2040, (The Top Dogs). I have 14 years seniority. Until recently, all the new hires except for the craftsmen, came thru the local employment office. For the last 18 months, all the hires had to go thru a State Employment Agency which they have to pay 25$ for testing, which does not guarantee a job. Then they have to go to a basic schooling at night for a period of time. If they can complete all of this, and get by an interview with most of the Superintendents, they usually get a job. They have a probation for 90 days where they have to wear a different colored hard hat from the rest of us. That way we all know that they are a 'rookie' and we can keep an extra eye on their safety. They usually work in several departments on the bottom jobs until a permanent job opens and they take it based on senoirity. After which, they may transfer to another department( and Local) when a job arrives based on their seniority. This being said...<br /><br />In the short time this has been going on, the ability of the hires seems to be better. We used to get folks who, like Elmer said, wanted a job but not work. I didn't think that it was a local issue, but it seems like most of the folks are just plain lazy.<br />Oh yeah, they usually go thru about 1000 folks to get 25 to hire.
 

aspeck

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Re: new round of immigration

Interesting e-mail I recieved last week - touches on this subject ----<br /><br />We all know **** Lamm as the former Governor of Colorado. In that context his thoughts are particularly poignant.<br /><br />Last week there was an immigration-overpopulation conference in Washington, DC, filled to capacity by many of American's finest minds and leaders. A brilliant college professor named Victor Hansen Davis talked about his latest book, "Mexifornia," explaining how immigration - both legal and illegal - was destroying the entire state of California. He said it would march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The American Dream.<br /><br />Moments later, former Colorado Governor Richard D. Lamm stood up and gave a stunning speech on how to destroy America. The audience sat spellbound as he described eight methods for the destruction of the United States.<br /><br />He said, "If you believe that America is too smug, too self-satisfied, too rich, then let's destroy America. It is not that hard to do. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time. Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall and that 'An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide.'"<br /><br />"Here is how they do it," Lamm said: "Turn America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bi-cultural country. History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual.<br /><br />"The historical scholar Seymour Lipset put it this way: 'The histories of bilingual and bi-cultural societies that do not assimilate are histories<br />of turmoil, tension, and tragedy.' Canada, Belgium, Malyasia, Lebanon all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces difficulties with Basques, Bretons, and Corsicans."<br /><br />Lamm went on: "Invent 'multi-culturalism' and encourage immigrants to maintain their culture. I would make it an article of belief that all cultures are equal. That there are no cultural differences. I would make it an article of faith that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of bounds.<br /><br />"We could make the United States an 'Hispanic Quebec' without much effort. The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity. As Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly recently: 'The apparent success of our own multi-ethnic and multi-cultural experiment might have been achieved not by tolerance but by hegemony. Without the dominance that once dictated ethnocentrically and what it meant to be an American, we are left with<br />only tolerance and pluralism to hold us together.'" Lamm said, "I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural sub-groups living in America reinforcing their differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their similarities."<br /><br />"Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group the least educated. I would add a second underclass, unassimilated, undereducated,<br />and antagonistic to our population. I would have this second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high school."<br /><br />"My fifth point for destroying America would be to get big foundations and business to give these efforts lots of money. I would invest in ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult of 'Victimology.' I would get all minorities to think their lack of success was the fault of the majority. I would start a grievance industry blaming all minority failure on the majority population."<br /><br />"My sixth plan for America's downfall would include dual citizenship and promote divided loyalties. I would celebrate diversity over unity. I would stress differences rather than similarities. Diverse people worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other - that is, when they are not killing each other."<br /><br />"A diverse, peaceful, or stable society is against most historical precedent. People undervalue the unity it takes to keep a nation together.<br /><br />Look at the ancient Greeks. The Greeks believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a common language and literature; and they worshipped the same gods. All Greece took part in the Olympic games. A common enemy Persia threatened their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not strong enough to over come two factors: local patriotism and geographical conditions that nurtured political divisions. Greece fell. "E. Pluribus Unum"<br /><br />From many, one. In that historical reality, if we put the emphasis on the 'pluribus' instead of the 'unum,' we can balkanize America as surely as<br />Kosovo."<br /><br />"Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits - make it taboo to talk about anything against the cult of 'diversity.' I would find a word similar to 'heretic' in the 16th century - that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like 'racist' or 'zenophobe' halt discussion and debate."<br /><br />"Having made America a bilingual/ bicultural country, having established multi-culturism, having the large foundations fund the doctrine of<br />'Victimology,' I would next make it impossible to enforce our immigration laws. I would develop a mantra: That because immigration has been good for<br />America, it must always be good. I would make every individual immigrant sympatric and ignore the cumulative impact of millions of them."<br /><br />In the last minute of his speech, Governor Lamm wiped his brow. The profound silence followed. Finally he said, "Lastly, I would censor Victor Hanson Davis's book Mexifornia. His book is dangerous. It exposes the plan to destroy America. If you feel America deserves to be destroyed, don't read that book."<br /><br />There was no applause. A chilling fear quietly rose like an ominous cloud above every attendee at the conference. Every American in that room knew<br />that everything Lamm enumerated was proceeding methodically, quietly, darkly, yet pervasively across the United States today. Every discussion<br />is being suppressed. Over 100 languages are ripping the foundation of our educational system and national cohesiveness. Barbaric cultures that practice female genital mutilation are growing as we celebrate 'diversity.'<br /><br />American jobs are vanishing into the Third World as corporations create a Third World in America - take note of California and other states - to date, ten million illegal aliens and growing fast. It is reminiscent of George Orwell's book "1984." In that story, three slogans are engraved in the Ministry of Truth building: "War is peace," "Freedom is slavery," and "Ignorance is strength."<br /><br />Governor Lamm, walked back to his seat. It dawned on everyone at the conference that our nation and the future of this great democracy is deeply<br />in trouble and worsening fast. If we don't get this immigration monster stopped within three years, it will rage like a California wildfire and<br />destroy everything in its path, especially The American Dream.<br /><br /><br />Aspeck - interesting perspective, not sure I buy into all of it, but definitely food for thought.
 

kenimpzoom

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Re: new round of immigration

You also have to remember that the illegals that make it to the USA are the ones with the desire and know-how to make it here.<br /><br />Most of these illegals want to work hard. The lazy ones are still back in their home country.<br /><br />Ken
 

mscher

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Re: new round of immigration

As a former Colorado resident, I memember Lamm to be a mediocre Governer, but apparently he can still spew out the captive speeches, no matter how lame(Lamm?).<br /><br />America has been multicultured since day one.<br /><br />Iraq is a free country, but it will never be a United States of America. There is and will only be one.<br /><br />One of these reasons is our ability to constantly re-invent ourselves.<br /><br />We have survived slavery, pre-union, union and post-union labor. We will survive outsourcing and immigrant labor also. <br /><br />Some will survive better than others, but isn't that how it has always been?
 

wilkin250r

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Re: new round of immigration

Originally posted by samagee:<br /> I think it looks like people are saying that we should change the labor laws here in America. I take it that we should not expect to have a life outside our work place? Live for the company and be grateful for what they do give you?
Is it too much to expect a worker to come in on time, sober? The occasional sick call-in is one thing, but to call in sick ten times in three months?!?<br /><br />Perhaps the company should pay you a few days late. Or maybe just give you half a paycheck every once in a while. If the employee can come in late, or drunk, why can't the company adopt the same policy with your paycheck?
 

samagee

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Re: new round of immigration

That wasn't my point wilkin250r. The point is, people were talking about these imigrants working long days with little pay. It is starting to sound like they are talking down to us for making a standard of living here in America.<br /><br />Of course you are suppose to show up sober and on time. That is part of the work standards as well.
 

mattttt25

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Re: new round of immigration

i don't remember saying immigrants working long hours for little pay. the post is straying as usual. didn't even say these were illegal immigrants, which they were not. simply new americans who happened to be from mexico that worked harder than their old american counterparts. and just one example.<br /><br />again, i like the comparison to our grandfathers and greatgrandfathers. they worked hard so i can live here and now these immigrants are working hard so their kids can live here.
 

snapperbait

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Re: new round of immigration

Immigrant workers are also more likely to work at jobs where the employer does'nt provide health insurance, thus saving the employer um-teen thousands of dollars...... Good for the employer, bad for the employee, and the rest of us too....<br /><br />If/when the immigrant worker or family member gets hurt or becomes ill and takes a trip to the ER or the Doc's office without health insurance, we all, you and me, pay to cover them....
 
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