NADA Values - How much "water" do they hold?

[eeboater]

Pun intended... <br /><br />I'm in the process of purchasing my first boat. I've run across a boat listed at the dealer for $6995. Yet, when I look at the "average retail value" of the boat in the NADA guide, it's only coming up at $5800. Thats with me including the Bimini and spare prop! So when I approach this dealer with a printed copy of the boats value per NADA, what do you think their reaction will be?<br /><br />They will need to come down at LEAST $500 -- they are listing it over $1000 above NADA!<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Sean

 

[POINTER94]

Re: NADA Values - How much "water" do they hold?

Its a benchmark to start from and nothing more. Don't get tied to the number, the boat, economy, location, etc have great affects of the value of a boat...<br /><br />Insurance companies need a benchmark as well and I think they work in that capasity in addition to resale value.

 

[crazy charlie]

Re: NADA Values - How much "water" do they hold?

Average retail means just that.If the boat and motor are in average condition then thats the number.If the dealer is going to make sure that everything is working properly and possibly giving you some kind of warranty ,a week,a month whatever and if the boat is in better than average cond then his price is right.On the average the dealer expects to reduce the price somewhat so $500 off is reasonable.good Luck!!!! Charlie

 

[JB]

Re: NADA Values - How much "water" do they hold?

How old is the boat, Sean?<br /><br />I have found NADA useful for fairly new boats that have not been equipped with electronics and other big bux accessories.<br /><br />After a boat is 4 or 5 years old NADA is useless. You have to go on condition and equipment. . . including the make and model of the engine.

 

[BillP]

Re: NADA Values - How much "water" do they hold?

Sean,<br />I'll post another slant. Just try to find a lending institution, boat dealer or boat broker that doesn't use nada or buc for value...you probably won't find one that doesn't. So in many respects the "book" value is credible when buying newer production based boats. <br /><br />But...It's up to the buyer to understand what book value really means. As already posted, it varies with boat, equipment and age. They use averages from resales to post values. An old hull that looks good could be rated above average where as a 1 yr old hull in the same condition would be rated fair or poor.

 

[eeboater]

Re: NADA Values - How much "water" do they hold?

Thanks for the feedback guys! The boat is a 1993 Larson 17' Runabout. The boat is over 120 miles away so I haven't been able to see it in person yet... So I can't be sure of the quality of the equip. From what i can tell (from the pics) there isn't any big bucks equipment involved... It appears to have been simply someones summer fun boat that they took out a couple times a year. Here's a link to the ad and you can see what I mean: <br /> Link <br /><br />I think I may make the ride this weekend just to see what it's all about.<br /><br />Sean

 

[quantumleap]

Re: NADA Values - How much "water" do they hold?

NADA Values - How much "water" do they hold?

About as much as a bayliner!

 

[aspeck]

Re: NADA Values - How much "water" do they hold?

Don't care if it boat, car, RV, ATV, whatever, NADA is an excellent GUIDE for the AVERAGE price. Retail prices are often over inflated because dealer may sell something for $6995 when he only has $4500 in it. This way he can give you a big discount on a straight sale or give you what you think your old boat is worth on a trade (even though it is not worth anything close to where you think it is). Remember, when dealing with a dealer, the only important number is the BOTTOM LINE!<br /><br />As already stated, if the boat is in excellent condition, it is worth more than the NADA average. But, are you interested in buying without a trade? Then get ready to tell the dealer that and see what happens from there. Don't offer him $500 less - let him make the first offer and go from there.<br /><br />Remember, when negotiating, don't beat up the dealer too much, however. They have to make a living also. Let them make a reasonable profit.<br /><br />Good luck with the potential purchase!

 

[CoachHolland]

Re: NADA Values - How much "water" do they hold?

As stated before, it depends a lot on area as well. For example, in my area, it doesn't matter how much you look, you will *not* find a boat priced around NADA values. Prices are way above that mark. I had to pay nearly $5000 ($4000 for the boat and almost $1000 in repairs) to get my (average retail) $2,965 boat ready for the water. Sad thing is, that was a decent deal for around here. <br /><br />However, in places like Michigan and Florida, it seem like people are hard pressed to get the book value for thier boats, thus many are priced under the NADA guides.<br /><br />You're living right there on the big lake up in Wisconsin though. I see no reason why you would have to pay more than retail on a boat. However, keep this in mind when you're buying. Judging by your sig as a Jeep owner, I'm sure you'll understand this. You're buying right in the peak of the boat season when prices are higher. You can get more out of your Jeep this time of year as well. It's the season where everyone wants one, so demand is higher, thus so are the prices.

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: NADA Values - How much "water" do they hold?

Regardless of NADA, boats are priced by a dealer as a "dream" price. They neither expect nor anticipate getting that price (but hope). There's a certain amount of "slop" built into their advertised price. Negotiate. For example, go to the bank, get a "U Write It" check, or equivalent, made out in the amount you're actually willing to pay and show that to the dealer. I've learned that unless the dealer, car or otherwise, sees cash-in-hand, they tend to discount what they percieve as casual shoppers. Used boat prices, as cars, are very negotiable.

 

[srperry01]

Re: NADA Values - How much "water" do they hold?

eeboater- i've run into the same thing recently and even added options and modifications to the price that the boat doesn't even have (to my knowledge)and can't get it even close to what they want for it. I plan on using it as an negotiating tool but am expecting to hear some excuses from the dealer. I think that it's reasonable to start negotiating at that price no matter how far from it the dealer is. That way you atleast have some 3rd party leverage. You know that you're not going to get that price but it can still be usefull. I do agree with aspeck on most of this though. good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

[DJ]

Re: NADA Values - How much "water" do they hold?

Once a boat has a few years on it and possibly some special equipment, NADA numbers mean very little.<br /><br />Also, boats tend to be at one end of the condition spectrum, or the other. "Average", is rare in the used boat market.<br /><br />EVERY USED BOAT IS UNIQUE.<br /><br />Some things need to be understood about dealers.<br /><br />1. They are in business to make a profit. I know that is becoming a despised business practice in this country, but it's still true. For a while.<br /><br />2. Every boat has a buyer. You may not be it.<br /><br />3. Cash is not an incentive for a dealer They would rather finance you through an organization (lending institution) that pays them a commision on the backside of the deal. Many times the finance deal is worth more than the sale.<br /><br />If you like the boat, buy it. Is there room for negotiation, sure there is. Just make sure you understand what a dealers hot buttons are.

 

[delsol]

Re: NADA Values - How much "water" do they hold?

its fairly accurate,banks use it but my 89 cobia 17ft w/ 80 hp books for 3k.or less<br />i think the boat is worth at least $4500 where i live in pa...<br />you cant buy this boat its a turn key for $2500 w new trailer

 

[John_S]

Re: NADA Values - How much "water" do they hold?

FWIW, the boat I purchased in May, was slightly below NADA average retail. This was from a dealer, and received season warranty (ends Oct 15). Condition was better than the NADA average retail description. The original listing by this dealer was above the NADA ave retail. My credit union, which was offering a great financing rate, used the NADA ave retail. They would not provide a loan for over the amount, regardless of condition. <br /><br />While checking some info on NADA, I see they have changed the website design since spring. Also, I think they have "adjusted" their values recently to reflect another season. Anyway, its not producing the same numbers from May. <br /><br />Its mid-summer, and dealers should be starting to get concerned about access inventory. Maybe WI is different, but your winters might even start sooner than us NYers, but I would expect to finalize negotiations below NADA ave retail. <br /><br />When you look at the boat, try to get a sense for how easy they will drop down, but wouldn't get into serious negotiations, until you do the rest of the homework to make sure this is the boat for you and its in the condition you are expecting. Lots of good info on this site about looking over used boats. I'd leave a business card, so they can call you back, and make sure they know you are serious about buying, but haven't commited to a specific boat. I'd expect a call within a week ;-)

 

[Solittle]

Re: NADA Values - How much "water" do they hold?

Check out Boat Trader (hard cy or on-line) to get alternative pricing for simular boats.

 

[BillP]

Re: NADA Values - How much "water" do they hold?

NADA and BUC values are based on actual sales figures. Asking prices are what you see in Boattrader. Lending instututions won't go by asking prices to make loans.<br /><br />A while back I was reading a financial mag on lending institutions and who they consider their best customers. Boat loans were in the top tier. Boat loans have the smallest default rate and highest loan satisfaction rate for personal property. Boat owners have the highest income and best credit ratings. Boat loans are normally paid off before the loan ends.

 

[aspeck]

Re: NADA Values - How much "water" do they hold?

John_S, Of course the values have changed since spring - depreciation, season, etc. All play into the value!

 

[swist]

Re: NADA Values - How much "water" do they hold?

It takes volume to make any statistical values significant. If you don't have many data points the deviation can be very large. Buying/seling boats in FL or MI is closer to buying and selling cars. There is more competition, the dealer markup is less, the price guides are more accurate. Where there is less traffic, dealer boat pricing can be pretty silly (raising the supposed retail price thousands in order to give you thousands of dollars of discounts, and then even more thousands as overstocks, boat show specials, end-of-year clearances, etc). You start thinking the dealer can't possibly be making much money. Think again.

 

[swist]

Re: NADA Values - How much "water" do they hold?

Someone mentioned add-on-equipment being a big variable - it's worth looking at the analogy to cars: On most boats, the total builder-optional equipment is MUCH bigger a percentage of base price of the boat than on a car - in fact on some boats it can add up to more than the base price of the boat.<br /><br />And aftermarket add-ons are the same story. With cars, after sound systems there's not a huge market - but with boats you can spend tens of thousands on electronics and fancy fishing gear and who-knows-what.<br /><br />And all this stuff depreciates at different rates (what's a LORAN worth now?). <br /><br />NADA boat proces exist because lenfers and insurers need something, but are pretty meaningless for any specific boat.

 

[John_S]

Re: NADA Values - How much "water" do they hold?

aspeck,<br /><br />yes, but do you know how often they adjust them? Monthly? quarterly? season? Is there some type of graph that shows change over time? or is it based on quering other dbs and then updating? lag? I have only navigated to find some info on items, not read all info on how they manage the data.<br /><br />All I can say is, I was getting the same numbers for about two months, and the latest check has dropped. Maybe they did just make a season adjustment and that is what is contributing to the posters disparety between NADA and dealer asking price. Centainly when NADA adjusts their prices, the dealers don't run out and lower their asking price. ;-)