Jumping a starter

[Backcountry]

This is going to sound like a stupid question. Trying to diagnose a starting problem with my '94 40hp Force, and have read many threads here. Not a motor expert myself.

Motor will start, but the starter hesitates for about 1 second before pinion comes up to engage the flywheel. Can hear a slight noise, not a click, not a hum, but more like someone breathing heavy coming from starter before it spins. I've checked connections and am using a fully charged, new battery.

I want to jump the starter, but I'm not sure where to find the positive post on it. I took the electrical cover off what I believe is the starter relay (according to diagrams), and can see the + cable from the fuse box runs to the relay. Is this the same as the solenoid, and if not, where does the solenoid sit in relation to the starter?

Thx,

BC

 

[rabeck5792]

Re: Jumping a starter

you can go straight to the starter post,but first,what condition are your bat cables in?i have always put thicker cables on than the manufacturer on force,chrysler motors,and some of the mercury motors.remember, crappy cables & connections KILL starters. rick

 

[Backcountry]

Re: Jumping a starter

Here's where I am. Disconnected the upper housing of the starter from the motor. Pulled the starter slightly away from the flywheel so it could spin without risk of hitting the flywheel. Used jumper cables from the battery to the post at the top of what I believe is the starter relay (part 89-817109A3). I hooked it to the post nearest the spark plugs, not the one that connects to the battery cable. The wire that goes to the post goes back to the bottom of the starter, I guess the starter post.

The starter turns fast and freely. Hook everything back up, it engages the flywheel, but can't turn it. Seems like it doesn't get enough power or something. Any ideas?

The battery cables seem to be 0 gauge.

Thanks!

BC

 

[Backcountry]

Re: Jumping a starter

One other thing. After I reconnected the starter, I jumped from the battery to the same post on the starter relay/solenoid (?). The pinion engaged the flywheel, but the starter doesn't seem to have enough juice to turn it. Could the starter be bad even though it spins freely when removed from the motor?

Thanks,

BC

 

[steelespike]

Re: Jumping a starter

It seems to be very common for the Force motors to have starter problems.
Don't know if its a werak starter or a motor that needs too much cranking.
Be sure to check all connections especially all ground connections.
(clean and tight) After trying the starter carefully feel the cables especially at the crimped ends.there may be some warmth but if you have one or more hot they may need replacement. You have jumped directly So if the ground is good you most likely have a bad starter.Bring the starter to electrical service center they can check it and do a rebuild if needed.

 

[Backcountry]

Re: Jumping a starter

Some more diagnosing...Put multimeter to the battery while starting. Voltage would drop from 13 to 9 or 10 and it wouldn't start. Then it started out of nowhere. jumped the trolling motor battery to the starting battery, and it starts every time, with just slight hesitation. Maybe a bad battery even though I just bought it today?

 

[maxum247]

Re: Jumping a starter

Try starting it with the trolling motor battery and see what happens. If it starts on the trolling motor battery alone then you could say the new battery may need charging or is possibly bad and in need of replaceing or at least testing.

max!

 

[Backcountry]

Re: Jumping a starter

Started fine with the trolling motor, and is now starting fine with the starting battery. I don't have a great feeling about it, but don't want to replace the starter either if it's not necessary.

 

[maxum247]

Re: Jumping a starter

Clean and tighten everything up good and put a little white grease on the starter shaft the pinion slides up and down on so the gear will throw easier and not want to hang on it's way to engage the flywheel.

max!

 

[Backcountry]

Re: Jumping a starter

Went back today and it was acting up again. Tore it down, made all connections shiny and reassembled. No real improvement, although it usually would start, just seemed a little weak/hesitation.

The only connection I did not get my hands on was the connection at the starter, the other end of the red wire from the solenoid. Have to remove the starter to get to it, and didn't have time to fight with trying to get those bottom fasteners off of the starter. With my luck, that's the one connection that is corroded.

Used a multimeter to test at the solenoid. With they key in the on position, I get 13v at the battery post at the solenoid, 0v at the starter post at solenoid. Start engine, and voltage on the starter post spikes to about 13v then drops. I'm assuming this is expected behavior. The only thing is that when I turn the key to the "on" position, I don't hear a click at the solenoid. Shouldn't I be hearing a click?

Next step is to remove starter, clean that bottom post, and then if that doesn't work, either replace the solenoid or clean/rebuild/replace starter. Ugh.

Thanks for all your help.

BC

 

[Backcountry]

Re: Jumping a starter

One more thing after researching additional posts. I found this from an ealier post by Eurolarva...

"Mine measures 2.4 ohms and it works fine. Disconnect the lead to the starter. Connect a volt meter set to DC volts on both big legs of the starter solenoid. You should read 12 volts or in your case 12.9v till you turn the key to the start position where you will read zero volts. If this is the case your solenoid is fine and I would start looking at the starter. When you turn the key to the on position you are energizing the switch to go to a closed or short position is why you would read zero volts. If this test does not pass make sure all wiring to the solenoid, battery and ignition switch is clean and tight."

When I do this, I get 13v with the key on or off. Does this indicate that the switch is not getting to a closed or short position?

Thanks,

BC