Is history repeating itself?

[rolmops]

Just the other day as I was rummaging through my old news paper clippings,I came upon some old library of congress notes.The subject discussed was colonialism and then secretary of state Foster Dulles.<br />It described how the USA championed the struggle of colonies against their colonial masters.Farther down in the editorial parts it described in detail how by removing colonial control it also removed the tariffs and trade barriers thereby removing the trade monopolies that existed because of colonialism.(As in Great Britain controls the imports and exports of Kenia).This of course opened these markets to USA manifacturing,which was the chief reason for Foster Dulles's stand against colonialism.<br />Taking this over to today's happenings in the Middle East,where in many cases time has frozen and the old colonial powers still have a very substantial control,easily comparable to the 1950s<br />I wonder.<br />Is todays movement to bring "democracy" to the arab world a repetition of the 1950's policy, another effort to remove the last remnants of colonial trade controls.This time not of states but of private companies with very deep ties within the economic powerhouse families in the arab states?

 

[12Footer]

Re: Is history repeating itself?

No. This is not a repeat of history. This is a global war to elliminate islamic terrorism.<br />It shouid also be clear by now, that most efforts at revisionism will fail in all respects except encouraging the terrorists.

 

[JB]

Re: Is history repeating itself?

No. What 12Footer said.<br /><br />Perhaps the move to allow people self government is a repeat of the move in the 50s, but the objective this time is to innoculate the Middle East against the root causes of Jihad.<br /><br />The enlightened self interest is, of course, an ever repeating motive.

 

[technostingray]

Re: Is history repeating itself?

Originally posted by JB:<br /> No. <br /><br />to innoculate the Middle East against the root causes of Jihad.<br /><br />The enlightened self interest is, of course, an ever repeating motive.

Rather terrorism in the name of Jihad. Just as the crusaders of Western Europe waged war to "free" the Holy Land. No repeat here.

 

[rolmops]

Re: Is history repeating itself?

Techno,can you explain your comment a bit more? I feel that I may read too much or too little in it

 

[technostingray]

Re: Is history repeating itself?

Perhaps this will help.\<br />They're rioting in Africa, there's strife in Iran<br />They're starving, in spain there's Hurricanes in Florida and Texas needs rain<br /><br />The whole world is festering with unhappy souls<br />The French hate the Germans, the Germans hate the Pols<br />Italians hate Yugoslavs, South Africans hate the Dutch<br />And we don't like anybody very much<br /><br />But we can be tranquil and thankful and proud<br />for mans' been endowed with a mushroonm shaped cloud<br />and we know certain that some lovely day<br />someone will set the spark off and we will all be blown away.<br /><br />They're Rioting in Africa, there's strife in Iran<br />What nature doesn't do to us will be done by our fellow man<br />Perhaps if you will tell me what you are reading in then I can clarify.<br />The Koran and the Bible have oft been mis-read.<br />

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Is history repeating itself?

dang tecno ya got it right.<br /> this is not a war on terror if it was we would have taken out the sauds and the financing but that would have crippled the current admins family finacial holdings. so we are slogging. about the best thing is at least saddams sons cant take over when he died.<br /><br /> thge koran and the bible are both interpeted for control of the masses.<br /> both have good points both are glossed over when the human need arises.<br /><br /> I was asked by a fundementalist babtist preacher not to come back to bible studies several years back<br /> the question I presented?<br /> if fundies only regognize the creation of earth and only recognize the creation of man in the past 6000 years and that man was created in gods image , what happened to all the sould that lived 10,000 years before?<br /> seems the cult of christainity has killed even more than Islam in the past 1000 or so years.<br /> but I guess killing in the name of christ makes killing ok. Ill try to research the biblical sections on that. so far aint a freaking preacher one can explain it to me .<br /> ever read what Richard the lion hearted did with about 2000 islamic prisoners in the crusades ????????

 

[orca]

Re: Is history repeating itself?

Yeah, And The spanish Missionaries used to burn the south Americans at the stake.<br />If they converted to christianity while the flames were licking then they were told that they were saved just before they died.<br />If they did not convert then that was OK, as heathens had been destroyed.<br />This method soon converted the rest of the masses.

 

[blade_x]

Re: Is history repeating itself?

I just have 1 question rolmops...why do you hate America so much?

 

[demsvmejm]

Re: Is history repeating itself?

Originally posted by 12Footer:<br /> No. This is not a repeat of history. This is a global war to elliminate islamic terrorism.<br />

Then why are we only in Iraq and Afghanistan? If we are taking it to them so we won't fight it on our city streets, then why aren't we in other countries baby bush said were in the Axis of Evil? Like Iran for one. More evidence, stronger intelligence, admittance from the coutry itself, and we won't invade. <br /><br />That is because Afghanistan was just a prelude to baby bush's personal interest, playing armymen in Iraq. Redumlicans either think we are stupid or they're lying.

 

[rolmops]

Re: Is history repeating itself?

Blade.<br />I think you have rather a warped idea of who and what I am.I cannot blame you for that since you have not been around here very long.<br />Suffice it to say that critical and analytical thought does not demonstrate hatred.Moreover it shows,in my case, an honest interest and respect for the thoughts and feelings of others.<br />Your idea of what America is,is your opinion and as such you are entitled to it.<br />You are not entitled to claim your ideas are exclusively what America is - e pluribus unicum est-.<br />My ideas are all based on mutual respect.Are yours??

 

[blade_x]

Re: Is history repeating itself?

Originally posted by rolmops:<br /> Blade.<br />I think you have rather a warped idea of who and what I am.I cannot blame you for that since you have not been around here very long.<br />Suffice it to say that critical and analytical thought does not demonstrate hatred.Moreover it shows,in my case, an honest interest and respect for the thoughts and feelings of others.<br />Your idea of what America is,is your opinion and as such you are entitled to it.<br />You are not entitled to claim your ideas are exclusively what America is - e pluribus unicum est-.<br />My ideas are all based on mutual respect.Are yours??

Please correct me if Im wrong but I have the feeling you think America is the root of all evil in the world today. Your post above sure points to that. Maybe Im jumping to conclusions but Ive spent such an incredible amount of time at political discussion sites the last several years I can usually spot the America haters miles away. <br /><br />You dont post that much thats positive that Ive seen. Maybe like you say thats cuz Im relatively new here. But if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck....<br /><br />Prove me wrong. Post something positive that America has done internationally lately. There must be some tiny small thing the Bush administration has done that you approve of. Something other than socialist united nations endeavors that is. <br /><br />I give my respect to those that deserve it if thats what youre asking. Ive met very few libs deserving of my respect though. Theyll steal my property and my rights every time they get a chance. It really is that simple. Hilary has come right out and blatantly said that. Remember her "we will take things from you" speech in SF? I dont want to be friends with them. They are the enemy and are to be defeated.

 

[12Footer]

Re: Is history repeating itself?

Originally posted by David L. Moore:<br />

Originally posted by 12Footer:<br /> No. This is not a repeat of history. This is a global war to elliminate islamic terrorism.<br />

Then why are we only in Iraq and Afghanistan? If we are taking it to them so we won't fight it on our city streets, then why aren't we in other countries baby bush said were in the Axis of Evil? Like Iran for one. More evidence, stronger intelligence, admittance from the coutry itself, and we won't invade. <br /><br />That is because Afghanistan was just a prelude to baby bush's personal interest, playing armymen in Iraq. Redumlicans either think we are stupid or they're lying.

Are you serious? Are you also for an immediate pull-out from Iraq?<br /><br />Why not just nuke Saudi Arabia? And wasn't the USS Cole in the port of Yemmen when it was attacked by alqueda? Let's turn it into glass also, right?<br /><br />Sure, i am being flippant. But then, "baby bush" is the commander in chief, so let's negate any diplomatic efforts that serve our intersts in this war. Why should i quit being flippant now, right? <br /><br /><br />And i would be interested in knowing just how thin you would like to see American miltary spread in the many valid and plausible theatres around the planet.<br /><br />I'm not a follower of Sheehan, so i won't pretend to understand the mindset. However, i sure would like to. It defies logical thought, at least to my limitted ability to comprehend it all (i'm a redumblican, after all). <br /><br />I truely would like to understand why the left desires a total American defeat in this war. It's always best to know what "opposition" you're up against in any fight.

 

[rolmops]

Re: Is history repeating itself?

Blade<br />During Queen Victoria's rule, her prime minister Livingstone once said:"A great nation has no friends,it has interests"<br />Why should the USA be any different?<br />Once you realize this fact,the question of love or hate becomes irrelevant.In Machiavellian reality policies countries do what is in their interest.<br />Why should me approving or disapproving the acts of a current president show whether I love or hate this country?To prove the point farther:Because I liked Clinton I hated America and because I like bush I love America?<br />I am afraid that my mind is far to simple to grasp those ideas.

 

[blade_x]

Re: Is history repeating itself?

Rolmops Ill bet someone could cut your tongue out of your mouth before you would ever admit there was a single thing W has done that you approve of, lol. On the other hand there was one thing that klinton did that I will always be grateful for...he got rid of that ridiculous 55 mph national speed limit. <br /><br />Remember...ABB!!! (Always blame Bush. )<br /><br />the mantra of the left.

 

[jtexas]

Re: Is history repeating itself?

See, here's the thing: serious discussions of events on this forum frequently break down at the outset when someone expresses an opinion that differs from that of the current administration.<br /><br />The thread moves off into how much you hate Bush, hate America, you must be an evil liberal communist or else you would agree with me that Bush's poots don't stink, look what Clinton did, the "left" does this, the "left" does that, yada yada yada.<br /><br />There are some republicans out here who think things through rather than blindly following our government. And (some of you may find this hard to believe) there are actually democrats, some of them "liberal" even, who are patriotic Americans, who don't hate Bush, who don't lust after Cindy and Hilary, who have no "mantra", whose tongue doesn't need to be cut out even.<br /><br />Wonder if we could manage to exchange ideas and thoughts without launching scuds at each other?<br /><br />[I should add, that's not directed at you, bladex, welcome to the forum by the way, or any individual in particular]

 

[rolmops]

Re: Is history repeating itself?

Originally posted by 12Footer:<br /> No. This is not a repeat of history. This is a global war to elliminate islamic terrorism.<br />It shouid also be clear by now, that most efforts at revisionism will fail in all respects except encouraging the terrorists.

There are 2 different subjects here.<br />A: The war against terrorism and B:the process of introducing democracy into the arab world.<br />My question was not aimed at the war,but at the political message that is spread as a result of the war.And the ulterior motives, if any,for spreading this message.

 

[JB]

Re: Is history repeating itself?

Don't try to put a label on rolmops, guys. They don't make one that fits.<br /><br />Like Teddy Roosevelt and John McCain he doesn't toe any "party" line, but thinks and speaks for himself and his own values.<br /><br />Sometimes I agree with him, sometimes not, but I always know that he is not parroting some idea that has been fed to him by the media or some politician.

 

[technostingray]

Re: Is history repeating itself?

Originally posted by Blade_X:<br /> ... On the other hand there was one thing that klinton did that I will always be grateful for...he got rid of that ridiculous 55 mph national speed limit. <br /><br />Remember...ABB!!! (Always blame Bush. )<br /><br />

Did Clinton do THAT? I didn't mark who got rid of it but I sure did mark who instituted it. I always called it the Niximum speed limit. My middle son, a registered Republican, could set you a fine battle on the pro's and con's of the recent administrations. However, he is too busy working full time, pursuing his formal education and observing current events to spend time on a boat site. Again, what can one expect from someone who lives in a republican county in a democartic state and doesn't have the advantage of being reared in a discriminating household. ROLMOPS, is not the enemy, "I have seen the enemy and he is us". Pardon me Pogo if I misquoted. 1-2-3, it's, elementary, it's so easy......... Another lesson in the lesser of two weasels....

 

[artburr]

Re: Is history repeating itself?

I don't hate Bush. I just wish that he wasn't the President!