Impeller challenged...?

[Bottomsupscott]

Ok, me again...so I installed new impeller kit (including housing) a few weeks back (albeit without any grease, duh)...
I went on to tackle new starter and altinator on my 2.3 in the meantime.

So I get her to idle finally. I put her in the river...idling...but as soon as I shift into forward and throttle up she bogs and dies.

Ok, so I check the impeller and I find it was jamming my drive shaft (see pictures below)???

Has anyone experienced such? I can't make sense out of it???

Please share any insights if there are any. Was it the mere lack of my greasing it up that caused such??? I mean the casing has melted, the water flow vanes have moved this impeding water flow. Etc.???

 

[hugh g]

The only greasing I ever did on an impeller was a little gear oil. Water is the lubricant. Did you run the engine to make sure you had flow thru the system?

 

[mike_i]

You said "I put her in the river...idling.". Was the motor running before you got it in the water? Are you positive you had the impeller viens in the correct direction? I always lube the impeller with a little dish soap and water.

 

[yacine]

It seems like if it was running dry for some time.
I would put a transparent tube from the transom to the engine to make sure that there is water when the engine is running and most importantly there no bubbles. If you do not see water, try revving the engine a little bit for a couple seconds while looking at the transparent tube to make sure you have water.
for lubing the impeller, I do use some soap water or just put some dish soap on the impeller itself to lube it until the water comes.
if the engine hesitates under load, maybe check if the carb is running too lean or timing.
Good luck!!

 

[Bottomsupscott]

It seems like if it was running dry for some time.
I would put a transparent tube from the transom to the engine to make sure that there is water when the engine is running and most importantly there no bubbles. If you do not see water, try revving the engine a little bit for a couple seconds while looking at the transparent tube to make sure you have water.
for lubing the impeller, I do use some soap water or just put some dish soap on the impeller itself to lube it until the water comes.
if the engine hesitates under load, maybe check if the carb is running too lean or timing.
Good luck!!

Thanks, although kind of stuck in that I'm not that familiar with OMC...are you suggesting I put a clear hose on from transom to thermostate inlet? Because I have no water there now, or didn't. I have another new impeller all greased up. I placed the vains in position...again...the prior two were smashed to the right when looking at it and the the vains were pushed out of round to the right as well along with a melted side wall (a bit anyway). So I'm hesitant to house it all up and find it going south on again...

 

[yacine]

Thanks, although kind of stuck in that I'm not that familiar with OMC...are you suggesting I put a clear hose on from transom to thermostate inlet? Because I have no water there now, or didn't. I have another new impeller all greased up. I placed the vains in position...again...the prior two were smashed to the right when looking at it and the the vains were pushed out of round to the right as well along with a melted side wall (a bit anyway). So I'm hesitant to house it all up and find it going south on again...

Thanks, although kind of stuck in that I'm not that familiar with OMC...are you suggesting I put a clear hose on from transom to thermostate inlet? Because I have no water there now, or didn't. I have another new impeller all greased up. I placed the vains in position...again...the prior two were smashed to the right when looking at it and the the vains were pushed out of round to the right as well along with a melted side wall (a bit anyway). So I'm hesitant to house it all up and find it going south on again...

 

[yacine]

Hi,
Yes from the transom to the thermostat inlet. That way you will see water flowing if there is water.
Here is a little tip.
When you start thw engine, have someone press the muffs to seal completely around the intakes and make sure the hose is turned on at full capacity to have the max water flow. You can also give it a little throttle to rev it up NOT IN GEAR . When you see water, make sure you watch carefully if you have any bubbles in hose.
If you see water, go down to the impeller and remove the little hose from the little plastic nipple, you should see water coming down.
Let me know what you find out.

 

[hugh g]

Thanks, although kind of stuck in that I'm not that familiar with OMC...are you suggesting I put a clear hose on from transom to thermostate inlet? Because I have no water there now, or didn't. I have another new impeller all greased up. I placed the vains in position...again...the prior two were smashed to the right when looking at it and the the vains were pushed out of round to the right as well along with a melted side wall (a bit anyway). So I'm hesitant to house it all up and find it going south on again...

It looks to me that the liner is out of shape or is it the angle of the pic? According to OMC the narrow end of the water pump shaft should be in the 6 o'clock position when installing the impeller. That will avoid having to twist the cover into position which can cause the o-ring out of the groove on the cover. If that happens the pump will suck air causing an overheat condition. That's how I always installed one & I never had a problem. Also turn the water to muffs on BEFORE you start the engine. You should see a pee stream from the lower unit even with the engine off.

No way would I allow anyone to hold the muffs in position on the drive with the engine running. That's just an accident waiting to happen. It's a bad practice & dangerous. If they don't fit correcty, buy a new set.

 

[Bottomsupscott]

The only greasing I ever did on an impeller was a little gear oil. Water is the lubricant. Did you run the engine to make sure you had flow thru the system?

Hi,
Yes from the transom to the thermostat inlet. That way you will see water flowing if there is water.
Here is a little tip.
When you start thw engine, have someone press the muffs to seal completely around the intakes and make sure the hose is turned on at full capacity to have the max water flow. You can also give it a little throttle to rev it up NOT IN GEAR . When you see water, make sure you watch carefully if you have any bubbles in hose.
If you see water, go down to the impeller and remove the little hose from the little plastic nipple, you should see water coming down.
Let me know what you find out.

I will go forward with all suggestion tomorrow a get back to you. I appreciate your time and effort!

 

[Bottomsupscott]

It looks to me that the liner is out of shape or is it the angle of the pic? According to OMC the narrow end of the water pump shaft should be in the 6 o'clock position when installing the impeller. That will avoid having to twist the cover into position which can cause the o-ring out of the groove on the cover. If that happens the pump will suck air causing an overheat condition. That's how I always installed one & I never had a problem. Also turn the water to muffs on BEFORE you start the engine. You should see a pee stream from the lower unit even with the engine off.

No way would I allow anyone to hold the muffs in position on the drive with the engine running. That's just an accident waiting to happen. It's a bad practice & dangerous. If they don't fit correcty, buy a new set.

You are correct in that upon removal, I found the housing spun or was forced to about the 2:00 position?*#? The internal wall of the housing was or had some melting inside as well. So I am not sure how to move forward...any suggestions?

 

[yacine]

running the engine for 5s or 7s will not damage the new impeller as long as it is lubed and the engine is not running max rpm.
make sure the muffs are as tight as possible and the water pressure is at its max flow. if you see water coming out of the little nipple on the impeller housing, that means you are not getting water to the impeller.
you wont get water if:
- not enough water from the muffs
- air leak somewhere so the impeller does not build pressure to suck water because it sucks air.
-engine RPMs are too low. I noticed this on my OMC 5.8L. it would not suck any water under 500 RPM so I used to rev it to about 1200
Good luck.
please let us know what happens

 

[hugh g]

running the engine for 5s or 7s will not damage the new impeller as long as it is lubed and the engine is not running max rpm.
make sure the muffs are as tight as possible and the water pressure is at its max flow. if you see water coming out of the little nipple on the impeller housing, that means you are not getting water to the impeller.
you wont get water if:
- not enough water from the muffs
- air leak somewhere so the impeller does not build pressure to suck water because it sucks air.
-engine RPMs are too low. I noticed this on my OMC 5.8L. it would not suck any water under 500 RPM so I used to rev it to about 1200
Good luck.
please let us know what happens

That's not true. I've seen guys at the ramp start their engine & burn up an impeller in seconds. Why risk it when it only takes a few seconds to hook up earmufs? AndI've never turned up water full blast. Depending on water pressure it may not be necesary & can blow a seal with too much pressure. As long as a pee stream iv visible there's no need to blast water thru the system. If the engine starts to heat up too fast he can always give it more water. Just sayin'.

 

[hugh g]

running the engine for 5s or 7s will not damage the new impeller as long as it is lubed and the engine is not running max rpm.
make sure the muffs are as tight as possible and the water pressure is at its max flow. if you see water coming out of the little nipple on the impeller housing, that means you are not getting water to the impeller.
you wont get water if:
- not enough water from the muffs
- air leak somewhere so the impeller does not build pressure to suck water because it sucks air.
-engine RPMs are too low. I noticed this on my OMC 5.8L. it would not suck any water under 500 RPM so I used to rev it to about 1200
Good luck.
please let us know what happens

Really? Water coming out of the housing means that the impeller IS getting flow. The nipple is a vent.

 

[hugh g]

You are correct in that upon removal, I found the housing spun or was forced to about the 2:00 position?*#? The internal wall of the housing was or had some melting inside as well. So I am not sure how to move forward...any suggestions?

You need a new impeller housing, seal for the groove, impeller & liner. And don't ever run the engine unless it's on muffs unless you want to keep changing impellers. It only takes a few seconds to burn one up. And always carry a spare. They're a piece of cake to replace on a Cobra.

 

[Bottomsupscott]

Thank you for the comments and directives!
Meanwhile I plan on pulling the drive (just never have on a OMC) and searching for flapper debri etc. in hopes of finding the culprit...it's not in the down tube...then installing the impeller and parts to see what happens. I'll keep you posted!
Thanks again!
Scott

 

[Bottomsupscott]

It looks to me that the liner is out of shape or is it the angle of the pic? According to OMC the narrow end of the water pump shaft should be in the 6 o'clock position when installing the impeller. That will avoid having to twist the cover into position which can cause the o-ring out of the groove on the cover. If that happens the pump will suck air causing an overheat condition. That's how I always installed one & I never had a problem. Also turn the water to muffs on BEFORE you start the engine. You should see a pee stream from the lower unit even with the engine off.

No way would I allow anyone to hold the muffs in position on the drive with the engine running. That's just an accident waiting to happen. It's a bad practice & dangerous. If they don't fit correcty, buy a new set.

Hugh G, my impeller drive shaft is at the 1:00 position and I can't seem to turn it by hand in neutral...I don't think this right...how do I get it to the 6:00 position?

 

[Bt Doctur]

grease should never be used on rubber, dishwashing soap or K-Y
that shaft is connected to your engine, tap the key to move the shaft. but it not really necessary. with lube you can rotate the impeller to where you need it

 

[Bottomsupscott]

Ok, I'm going to the boat right now. I'll try again...although I am having a hard time pulling the outdrive...seems stuck like corrosion or something...

 

[Bottomsupscott]

Ok, got the out drive off with the help of my come along! However, while checking the gear oil, I noticed one of my vent/fill (?) Screw plugs was gone, missing...needless to say all the upper gear unit was devoid of all lubrication/oil etc.!?! So I don't know if anything is damaged or not. This was full a month ago. I haven't a clue of how that screw/plug came out...now what do I do?

 

[Grub54891]

Not good. When ran low on oil, the gears go away rather quickly.