how far can a boat heel without capsizing?

[bowman316]

I have a 26 ft, full keeled grampain sailboat. I was just wondering how far the boat can heel without tipping over. Because I almost tipped it today.
I had it at maybe a 60 degree angle to the water. like 60 degrees from straight up in the air.

the rail that runs down the side of the boat was almost at the waterline.
I guess If I heeled any more, water would come into the cockpit, over the gunwhales.

But everything is self bailing, so even if I went 90 degrees to the water, would it still right it self? because that keel will not want to go up in the air, gravity will pull it down.

 

[bowman316]

Re: how far can a boat heel without capsizing?

i did some calculation found of this site:
http://www.sailingusa.info/design_winds.htm
angle of vanishing stability is the number i was looking for.
my boat can theoritacally heel to an angle of 140 degrees or so, and still right it self.
so the sails could go under water, and the boat would still pop back up. seems crazy to me.

 

[saildan]

Re: how far can a boat heel without capsizing?

About this far

Next stop

That's why the keel is weighted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZcwoQoNVak

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-SPkShXnrg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIplsOf_DBQ


Post some pictures of your boat.

 

[bowman316]

Re: how far can a boat heel without capsizing?

my boat has an 8 ft 4 inch beam, and a 2600 lb keel. boat weight is 5600.
no water ballast, just a cast iron keel.
It looked like lead to me, but the grampian website said they were cast iron.

So maybe i was not close to capsizing, but i just thought I was.
The stantions were pretty close to the water.

So I guess those keels on the ocean 60's have a swinging keel, you can operate from inside the cabin?

 

[saildan]

Re: how far can a boat heel without capsizing?

So maybe i was not close to capsizing, but i just thought I was.
The stantions were pretty close to the water.

Sounds like you were just heeled over. I've sailed some tacks in a posture that felt like I was nearly standing on the face of the leeward bench.

When the water reaches the hatch and starts to fill the compartment, you're on your way to a full knock-down. (and a good swamping)

When the mast top hits the water you are capsized. But, if the boat is "self-righting" it'll recover. And, if it has sufficient flotation you'll be swamped but still afloat.

When are you gonna take that sailing course. It'll save you years of these musings.

 

[Damifudo]

Re: how far can a boat heel without capsizing?

I have a 26 ft, full keeled grampain sailboat. I was just wondering how far the boat can heel without tipping over. Because I almost tipped it today.
I had it at maybe a 60 degree angle to the water. like 60 degrees from straight up in the air.

the rail that runs down the side of the boat was almost at the waterline.
I guess If I heeled any more, water would come into the cockpit, over the gunwhales.

But everything is self bailing, so even if I went 90 degrees to the water, would it still right it self? because that keel will not want to go up in the air, gravity will pull it down.

It wont truely capsize it will be a knock down. When your bot is 90 degrees and the mast is touching the water the wind can no longer push against the sails and the weight of the keel will be pulling down and that boat will right itself again. The **** pit and maybe the boat will be full of water but you will sit back up as soon as you release the sails. The only boats that will capsize are the center boad boats that have no weight in the keel. Trust me I know. I been knocked down a few times in a J22 with a spinnaker in racing. true 90 degree knock downs the boat always poped back up. most of the time with all of us still on board. Sometimes with some of us swimming next to her but she was always able to sail off again afte the knock down.

 

[ghamby]

Re: how far can a boat heel without capsizing?

Lee rail in the water? You've just gotten to the fun part. Keep at least one
drop board in the companion way in a blow.

 

[bowman316]

Re: how far can a boat heel without capsizing?

drop board?

 

[saildan]

Re: how far can a boat heel without capsizing?

drop board?

Drop Boards (Companionway Slats)

 

[bowman316]

Re: how far can a boat heel without capsizing?

so why do you keep a drop board in during a blow?
so water does not get in?

 

[ghamby]

Re: how far can a boat heel without capsizing?

yes.

 

[bowman316]

Re: how far can a boat heel without capsizing?

wow, now that is heeling over far.
my door is all one solid piece of plywood thou.

 

[emoney]

Re: how far can a boat heel without capsizing?

Get some 1 x boards and make at least 3 boards to fill that space, then
you can leave the shortest one (the bottom one) in during bad weather. I
used inexpensive wood I bought from Lowe's that I stained and varnished.
Plus, it's a lot easier to store 3 boards than it is the one big one you have
now, when you're out.

 

[Mark SF]

Re: how far can a boat heel without capsizing?

Most non-sailboats have an angle of tilt, which when exceeded, results in a capsize. They will capsize when the lean results in them losing their righting moment. Then they suddenly flip, either onto their sides or just as likely, upside down.

Most sailboats have no such angle where the righting moment is lost, thanks to the keel. If you put them at any angle, there is still a righting moment. They should recover from being on their sides, or worse. However recovery can be complicated by flooding of the boat, drag from rigging and sails in the water, etc.

If you are at 60 degrees to vertical you have too much sail up. You're just making the boat hard to steer, placing excess strain on the rigging, without any gain in speed. Time to reef! (well, earlier was the time to reef....)

 

[NYGiants]

Re: how far can a boat heel without capsizing?

those pictures are of all racing boats. they are much different in design then your boat. you will most likely round up before becoming knocked down

 

[thaikarl]

Re: how far can a boat heel without capsizing?

i just bought a Lapworth Gladiator 24. full keel boat. had it out on lake washington today with the full jib and mains up. nice wind, but man it heeled over sharply. gunwales weren't in the water, but it still skeered me. turning into the wind felt like it made it worse - as the boat would speed up and the rigging would sing, i didn't dare turn into wind any further, easing off from being close hauled to a close reach softened the heel a bit. still exciting. i took down the big jib and tried out a little one i found below (i've only had the boat a week) and of course, the wind eased off a bit, but we were still sailing nicely. all my previous sailing experience has been on a 50' 30 ton ferro-cement ketch. so this little guy is a bit of a change.

 

[Mark SF]

Re: how far can a boat heel without capsizing?

How strong were the winds and how big are your small and large jibs in %?

Last weekend I sailed on SF bay in about 15 knots wind in a Merit 25. We did not reef, another M25 did. Then we got into a race for about 3 miles. We were about 100 yds ahead after those 3 miles. So were were going, what, 0.1 knots faster? But healing much more, and having a harder time on the helm.

So for less heal and going very nearly just as fast, reef.

Also the jib is frequently forgotten. It is actually more important to have the jib matched to the wind as :

1) A too large jib gives lee helm (dangerous)

2) A large genoa is very scoopy so causes lots of heel in gusts, and when eased in a gust frequently just becomes a better parachute causing more heel

3) The main is easier to ease quickly in a gust and no-one has to go down to the jib winch which might even be underwater!

Roller reefing is a godsend for the jib, as you can progressively drop the jib size from 150% genoa to 100% or less as the wind goes up to 15 knots.

In answer to your question though, a boat will heel until it loses it's righting moment. A sailboat is usually designed to never lose it's righting moment, even when upside down (thanks to the keel and ballast). It will not capsize as such, it will knock down. This can lead to a downflood if the hatches are open. Otherwise you will have a scary minute wondering when or if the boat will right.

 

[taylar]

Re: how far can a boat heel without capsizing?

Thnx for the information.
This is really great.

==================taylar
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