Hey my first post and long problem please

Colorado Boat Nut

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Jul 6, 2003
Messages
34
Sorry, but im going to blow up my first post, i dont have my engine serial number but i can tell you this much<br /> 84 mecruiser 120 w/rochester 2bbl(1 adjustment screw 1+ turn out} rebuilt and re-jet dropped 2 sizes from stock(solid float needle not spring loaded}<br />choke set 1 notch lean<br />point's fair cond set at about .020-.022 spec18-25<br />dwell?<br />plugs new <br />cap and rotor and wires in good cond.<br />timing- advanced, spec is 8* btdc, im at high altitude and it just wont start or run smooth at spec, so i crank it past 8* cant say exatly where<br />it's just where it runs best for me.<br />distributor springs and advance mech. seem intact and move freely, functioning properly?, i couldn't say for sure but it does advance as the rpm's increase<br />new t-stat<br />13p prop (had a 17p)<br />1.98:1 gear ratio<br />thats all i can think of for now<br />Here's my problem<br />i bought the boat 2 yrs ago it was clean and ran well on the hose but i put it in the water and it had no power/no rpm's 15-1800 max wot according to tach and my ear's<br /><br />so i started with the ignition system and set everything to spec all items appeared to be new and in good cond,<br />i also checked to make sure the carb was opening all the way and with a very minor adjustment it was.<br />with all things set i put it in the water it was still really slow.<br />also noted rich/uneven fuel mixture Smell & black smoke (uneven looking down carb wot in gear in the water }<br /><br />so this year i rebuilt the carb w/new float as i am confident the ignition system is in good shape<br /><br />you may have guessed it, it was Still really slow and seemed even richer after cleaning the carb although the carb was really clean when i tore it down <br />anyway i got some smaller jet's and a lower prop<br />i had a 17p (dia 13 1/2-14?} and went to the same dia 13P<br />the 2 helped cosiderably but im still not to the 4200 rpm id like to see<br />im around 3000 rpm tops and slow getting there (has a slight intermitant miss at max) <br />you really have to work it up slowly or it will bog fairly bad if you try to nail it<br /> also it will begain to drop off in speed as you aproach WOT about 3/4 full it just drops off bad so if you back off some you can get it back around 3K again<br />you maybe thinking accelerator pump but it's working very well<br />I just cant quite figure it out am i still rich do i need to drop a couple more sizes on the jets?<br />the plugs are carbon fouled is that from idle in the no wake zone<br /><br />i tune alot of different engines and am usually sucessfull<br />this one is being a pain<br /><br />well sorry for the long post thanx in advance for your help ill try anything at this point <br /><br />p.s I haven't done a compression test yet but i have pulled each plug wire while it was running and got a fair drop on each cyl Soooo?
 

bernieb

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
209
Re: Hey my first post and long problem please

Not a seasoned mechanic here, but you may consider this..........your boat an 84 and if orignal engine you may have worn cam lobes that are affecting the intake valves .Can someone else expand on this ? You also can have the cylinder head checked out at the parts store.
 

Colorado Boat Nut

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Jul 6, 2003
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Re: Hey my first post and long problem please

thanx bernieb, no offence but i sure hope your wrong,I was looking for the easy 5 minute stuped little thing i overlooked answer (hehe)<br /><br />while the boat is getting up in years it is in over-all great shape although i dont know alot about the history of this boat i dont think it has a ton of hours on it, the engine appears to be O.E. , no oil leaks, i would think it would be leaking by now,but who knows <br /><br />i don't claim to be an expert but i do have about 10 year's automotive service exp. so when i saw this engine i said "no problem" i can make this run, well here i am,it run's fairly well i just can't get the rpm's and when it fall's off around/above 3/4 throttle i just don't get it<br /><br />it's alot better than it was, it would hardly move before i did all this work now at least i can get up on plane it takes a while but i think it's up there <br /> <br />does anybody know of an easy power upgrade maybe a v-6 swap or am i stuck with the 4 banger<br /><br />well thanx again <br />C.B.N.
 

flashback

Captain
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Messages
3,963
Re: Hey my first post and long problem please

I didn't see anything in your post regarding the fuel system other than the carb.....assuming you built the carb correctly, then you may have a restriction in the fuel line,filter,pump,breather ,etc check it all out........
 

Colorado Boat Nut

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Jul 6, 2003
Messages
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Re: Hey my first post and long problem please

FLASH Good catch,you get an A+,thanx for putting up with, and reading my long post,i really haven't<br />looked to closely at fuel delivery,but i will now,<br />i guess i didn't really consider fuel delivery to be a problem considering it seem's like it's getting too much fuel, even though i did drop a couple sizes on the jet's it still can get a little rich exhaust smoke (black) at both trolling speeds and high rpm's and worse when it start's bog nearing WOT /3K rpm's and 3/4 throttle<br /><br />thanx though i will check all that out <br /><br />unless there's something wrong it wont cost me anything right<br />thanx CBN
 

trm

Seaman
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
61
Re: Hey my first post and long problem please

I had same problem you have (stumbling over 3k rpm.) I too run the 120 4 banger of about 1968 vintage. The combination of things I did to solve problem were: 1) Rebuilt carb paying VERY close attention to float level in the Rochestor. . 2) replaced points which were just slightly pitted. Dwell set to specs at 33 degrees. 3) replaced condensor. 4)new plugs. 5)checked timing which was correct at 8d btc. 6) install fresh fuel. Fired it up, set idle screws (2 in my setup). Warmed it up, in water, and went straight to 4200 rpm without a hitch. At 2000rpm it sounds as sweet as a sewing machine. Doesn't seem it's working any harder at 4200:) I think it would go straight to 5000 if I asked it to, but haven't taken it past 4400 and probably never will. When I troll at idle (700 rpm) for an hour or so, the top rpm thereafter will be 3000-3500 until the fouled plugs clean themselves and, without changing the throttle, she'll climb to 4200 where I back of the throttle to keep at 4200.<br /><br />Checking the plugs after this, they are clean of oil, but just evenly black which I suspect is "normal". Since trolling is what we do, I guess someday I should invest in a trolling motor.<br /><br />If you've done all this then I know not what you do next. But I would double check the float level and the points.<br /><br />Good Luck<br /><br />swabbie
 

Colorado Boat Nut

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Jul 6, 2003
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Re: Hey my first post and long problem please

Hummmmmm the only thing that i can't rule out as new or perfect cond is the point's,cap & rotor however the hour's are very low on these item's and they are still in good shape i want to install electronic ignition soon, i have never been a big fan of point's, i need to get back in the boat im going to check the fuel system to the carb and see if i can get the elec. Ignition <br />anybody know who has the best price on that<br />thanx everybody<br />CBN
 

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
70,953
Re: Hey my first post and long problem please

Eletronic Ignition Conversion Kit... 4cyl. GM.... NAPA # 18-5297... $135.34 list $85.27 jobber....
 

Colorado Boat Nut

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Jul 6, 2003
Messages
34
Re: Hey my first post and long problem please

hey thanx Bondo, that was a good part number i called on it today but they quoted me the list $140.00<br /><br />so i will probably go with the PETRONIX Conversion at half of that price ,my boat budget is about done for the season<br /><br />thanx though i found some other good info/ideas from checking that out<br /><br />does anybody know if you have to use the <br />"PETRONIX Conversion cap and rotor" or will the stock one's work<br />thanx CBN<br /><br />this is how we do it at a Mile High<br /> http://www.ncwcd.org/project&features/Lake_Granby.asp
 

beckerdg

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 9, 2002
Messages
147
Re: Hey my first post and long problem please

I use the Pertronix Ignitor module. Works great. You do not need a new cap or rotor. I would suggest that you get the Pertronix Ignitor II for a little more. The original Ignitor will self destruct if you leave the ignition on for just a few minutes without running the engine leaving you dead in the water... (luckily I experienced this doing a compression test on the trailer) Ignitor II does not have this feature.
 

beckerdg

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Sep 9, 2002
Messages
147
Re: Hey my first post and long problem please

I forgot, I did have to do a little dremmel work on the cap, and the rotor too. It's been a while, but the wires comming from the module were bigger than the stock cap would allow, so that had to be enlarged. That was in the instructions. I vaguely remember that the magnet ring that fits under the rotor took some room, so I think I trimmed a bit of plastic off the bottom of the rotor as well so it would sit at the same height as before.
 

dcraigbrown

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Jul 13, 2003
Messages
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Re: Hey my first post and long problem please

I have an OMC 2.5L doing almost exactly the same as yours. We have one huge thing in common. I'm also in Colorado- high altitude. I've done pretty much everything you've mentioned to try and solve it- without much luck. Changing all the ignition parts and giving it a good tune up got me up to 3600RPM but I have the same symptoms you do. If I nail it the engine sounds like it's running in syrup- working so hard I'm afraid it'll blow. If I back off I can ease it back up to 3500-3600. My motorcycle was suffering from a lack of power and my mechanic told me to go 2 turns in on the mixture screws- due to the altitude. It sounded worse at idle but it was much better in the power band. Maybe the same would work here?? I hope you/we find an answer here.
 

jimowen

Cadet
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Messages
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Re: Hey my first post and long problem please

I'm not an expert on high altitude boat engines, but I have worked on aircraft a bit (and I also stayed at a Holiday Inn in Denver once). Everything you're saying shouts "too rich a mixture" to me. I'm not familiar with your specific engine (are both barrels feeding a common intake? If so, then all cylinders should react nearly identically). If not, one barrel may only feed half. If you goose the engine and it falters (and you say the accelerator pump is working) then it is definitely too rich. Take the engine to max rpm and short (or remove) each spark plug lead. If they are all relatively consistent, I'd say its time to reset the float height (slightly lower) or rejet to smaller (or both). Another thing I use is a "test can" for fuel... small, clean tank, clean hoses, etc. That way nothing but fresh gas goes into the engine being tested. If that cleans it up, then its your fuel system.<br /><br />regards,<br />Jim
 

Colorado Boat Nut

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Re: Hey my first post and long problem please

yea the jets helped but it is still rich, i also dropped prop pitch from 17-13 at the same time so it's tough to say how much the jet's helped but i only went down one size on the jet so maybe try the next size down would help more <br /><br />oh and jst4fun in case you want to try some jet's i found mine at "Don's Carbs" (in lakewood??)<br />sorry i dont have the number in front of me but he is in the book he can make you jets if he doesn't have the right one's just take your's to him and he'll fix you up $10/for both is what mine cost (in stock)<br />jst4fun where do you boat at? <br />i get to carter as often as i can.<br />see ya round maybe<br />thanx<br />CBN
 

dcraigbrown

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Jul 13, 2003
Messages
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Re: Hey my first post and long problem please

Colorado Boat Nut,<br />I live in the Springs and normally head down to the Pueblo Reservoir. I just bought my boat, 1980 17' Renken, OMC 120hp, from a dealer. Boy my heart just sank when I got it out on the water and I couldn't even get out of the hole. It was never meant to be a speed demon but I expect more than what I got. The last couple posts mention too rich a mixture and I do see black smoke coming out of the exhaust. I hope that's it.<br /><br />Happy Boating
 

Colorado Boat Nut

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Jul 6, 2003
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Re: Hey my first post and long problem please

I feel your pain jst4 I had the same feeling the first time I had mine out infact I still get it with all the work time and money ive put into it and it's still not right..<br /><br />I had mine out today and had about the max load on it roughly 1000lbs so I wasn’t expecting it to fly but I sure wish it ran better. <br /><br />It starts great idles well but you start getting into the upper end of the throttle it falls off, it starts missing and the rpm's drop<br /><br /> When I got home I pulled the plugs 1,3,4 looked real good 2 was a little carbon fouled,<br /><br /> I decided to check the resistance on the plug wires and got a wide variance in resistance I don’t know what spec is but I would think they should all be close to the same, physically they appear to be in good shape<br />They are all working, I started it up and pulled one at a time and the rpm's would drop considerably<br /> I also did the screw driver and was a little disappointed with those results I couldn’t jump a spark more than a 1/4 inch shouldn't it be about 1/2 inch?<br /><br />I checked the voltage on the positive side of the coil and it only measured 4.8V is that right<br /><br />Any further thought's would appreciated<br />CBN
 

Colorado Boat Nut

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Jul 6, 2003
Messages
34
Re: Hey my first post and long problem please

FOUND IT!!!!!<br />Head Gasket<br />i should have just checked the compression<br />leak between 2&3<br />oh well i did alot of work to it that needed to be done anyway<br />runs great now<br />ok now to winterize it<br />NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO<br />im not ready yet <br />i just got it running good<br />thanx for everybodys help<br />Kev
 

merc 140 pontoon

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
Messages
129
Re: Hey my first post and long problem please

Did you install the Pertronix? If so, make dammmmm sure that the positive lead from the Pertronix goes to a switchable 12V source on the harness, NOT to the positive post on the coil. If your coil is externally resisted, that would put your Pertronix feed after 1.8 ohms of resistor cable or ballast resistor, meaning 6-9V running (12V cranking due to assist wire from starter). You may say "it's on the positive post, and no problem, blah blah blah", but I'm telling you--when your resistor cable or ballast resistor starts to degrade someday and increase resistance with heat (and it will), your coil post voltage will drop below 7.5V or so and---poof---your Pertronix will SHUT DOWN. It happened to me repeatedly, and took a long time to figure out. The Pertronix help line told me it's very common. When I dug into my wiring, I found the mechanic who USED TO work on my boat wired it wrong. The Ignitor directions are clear, but he still wired it to the coil post. And I paid him to screw up my boat... Make sure now before you spend a day cursing on the lake.
 
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