Help no oil in lower unit

[Big Lou]

Needs some advice, here's the story. I had my boat (2003 Four Winns 214 Funship with Volvo 5.0 DP only 97 hrs.) winterized and completely serviced (changed all the oils, plugs, impeller etc.) by a reputable shop. Anyway I took her out last week for the first time of the season (in the 70's here in TX). I noticed it sounded kind of strange but I thought it could be because she sat up for 3 months. This is my first boat and the first time everything as I got her in May of last year. So I took her out for a while and the noise didn't go away, it sounded like it was coming from the lower unit, it wasn't a terrible sound just different and I could only hear it at idle. So after a while I call it a day because I am concerned about the noise. I call the shop and they tell me it could be nothing but I should keep a close eye on it and let them know if something changes.
So I go on my way and don't think of it too much anymore until today when I wanted to go get some lunch on the lake. As I am loading the boat I decide to check the lower unit oil and it is dry as a bone. (No I didn't check it the first time out, yes I should have but I didn't. I did check all the other fluids but that one I missed). The shop doesn't open until Tuesday and I am wonder what should I make them do. Should I make them tear it down and inspect it? Or is there something else I should do? they seem to be really good guys and I am sure this is just an unfortunate oversight but at the same time the cost of a lower unit is expensive to say the least. Any help would be highly appreciated.

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Help no oil in lower unit

I would take it to them and give them the opportunity to make it right, Boat shops that are still in business are the ones that treat people right, but there are a few slimes still around. How many hours are on the lower unit since the winterize?

 

[Big Lou]

Re: Help no oil in lower unit

Only about an hour, the day I described in the original post.

 

[1987sylvanoffshore]

Re: Help no oil in lower unit

Did you pull the vent screw out too when you checked or just the bottom screw? What type of drive is it?

 

[crewscontrol]

Re: Help no oil in lower unit

This is not good. Ideally the shop should either replace your drive or tear your drive down and inspect and / or replace the moving parts. If they do the latter, you should be around and inspect the bearings and gears.

However I feel that most any shop will just fill it with oil and tell you to run it and see what happens. If it runs for several hours the shop will probably tell you the drive is OK. Only problem with this is the drive will probably run OK for a while, but the life of the drive HAS been compromised by the mistake.

Good luck and let us know how this turns out.

 

[Joshua Nichols]

Re: Help no oil in lower unit

Yikes......:facepalm: You are fixing to have a major battle on your hands with that shop.. Of course I would fight my tail off for my boat and I am sure you feel the same way.... Good luck

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Help no oil in lower unit

Howdy,


I don't know how many times I have told this story....... (Maybe Bondo is keeping count!!)


My brother bought the Four Winns 211 Liberator in my "sig" new in 1987.

He bought it new with the OMG 460 Qing Chobra installed

Late 90's he took it to a Four Winns dealer to have the drive serviced which included changing the drive oil and other "things"

Now one would expect that when you go to a "dealer" they would know what in the 'ell they're doing huh?

Later, next summer, he took it to the lake and went for a morning "run" around the lake.

He only made it about half-way around the lake before it just slowed down and stopped.....and would NOT re-start or even crank over..........(little did he know the drive was completely welded frozen)


Looking in the back, water was literally boiling around the top of the nearly submerged drive.


When he checked the drive, there was no oil in it. He also didn't know that one should check the drive even when a "professional" "services" it!!


When he took it back to the offending "dealer" they actually owned-up to it and replaced the drive with no "lawyering-up"

A couple of years later he took it to a different (Four Winns) dealer to get the same work done that must have included drive oil service...........

This time it made it a little further (before the "upper" froze up) around the lake because they filled it like a Mercruiser this time.


And again the "Dealer" replaced the drive with no lawyering-up.......


There's probably a lesson here.....

I now have a Mercruiser Bravo drive on the back with a drive lube monitor on it etc.......

I don't let anyone else "touch" it.....AND even if I did in some lapse of sanity take my boat to a dealer to have "regular" service done, I would still probably ENSURE that the oil was indeed changed properly.......



Having said all of the above........IF the drive is INDEED "dry as a bone" and you ran it that way. It needs to be rebuilt/replaced.

Sorry about that,





Rick

 

[Big Lou]

Re: Help no oil in lower unit

Thanks for all your suggestions, I take her in this morning. We will see what they say and do. I will let you guys know.

 

[Big Lou]

Re: Help no oil in lower unit

Well I took it to the shop. It wasn't out of oil is was very low. I sat there while they drained it, it was definitely fresh oil and I saw absolutely no metal pieces or shavings in the oil. Then we started it with the muffs and it seemed normal. Should I pursue a tear down or because it had no metal in the oil should I let it go????

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Help no oil in lower unit

If they changed the oil before you ran it and it's not leaking, they either didn't fill it properly or didn't put enough oil in it.

That can damage the upper gears and bearings (because they run "un-covered")

If there is damage, they should accept responsibility.

 

[Don S]

Re: Help no oil in lower unit

What they should have done is finished filling it to find out how low it was. Problem is, if you could hear the difference in what the drive sounded like when running, something was running dry.

 

[1980Coronado]

Re: Help no oil in lower unit

Some kid "mechanic" filled it from the top hole instead of pumping it in from the bottom....had it happen to me...had to threaten to sue to get the drive replaced when the gears failed. There is damage to your drive, you just can't see it yet. I would demand that they replace gears, bearings, and seals in the upper case at a minimum....if they refuse...document everything in a certified letter to the shop owner, times, dates, conversations...etc. Document what you expect to be done and give them a time frame to complete the work. If they do not comply, get a lawyer and take them to small claims court.

 

[semo549]

Re: Help no oil in lower unit

My dad forgot to put oil back I his alpha 1 gen 2 after refinishing the drive. We took it out for about 35 minutes worth of running time then it went kaboom. We split the upper and lower and there was nutting left of the gears for the lower. I would demand a new drive, yours is prolly a hair away from doing the same thing. Ours wasn't covered under insurance though 

 

[dn010]

Re: Help no oil in lower unit

You sure the oil didn't leak out the seal into the bellows?

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Help no oil in lower unit

I would demand that they replace gears, bearings, and seals in the upper case at a minimum..

Um, NO.

The oil is shared top to bottom. The drive MUST be disassesmbled, inspected, and completely rebuilt properly if any part of it "ran dry".

 

[1980Coronado]

Re: Help no oil in lower unit

Not familiar with the Volvo...but in a Mercruiser there are two chambers...an upper and a lower. They are connected by a small passage such that if you fill from the top vent hole, the top chamber fills and then over time it drains into the lower chamber leaving the upper "dry". Hence, you must fill the case from the bottom and force oil into the upper until is reaches the vent....that's how you know its full. If the gears had failed, I'd agree, but there was no catastrophic failure here. The bearings and gears in the lower half should be fine....they had lubrication. The upper did not. Any damage to gears and bearings would be limited to those that didn't have lubrication, unless the gears failed and contaminated the whole drive with metal. Notice I said "minimum" in my post. Yes...complete tear down and inspection is warranted of both halves. If the lower shows damage, replace the parts.....but at a minimum the upper half needs new everything regardless of it looks visually.

Bottom line is.....if the shop doesn't cooperate...document all conversations, dates, times, fees, etc...send a certified letter of your expectations to the shop owner. If they do not do what you ask, file a claim against them. You have to give them a chance to correct the problem before you file. If you don't, what will happen is the Judge will give them time to correct it before issuing a judgment. If you've already done that and it's documented....you can proceed with legal action against them.

 

[Joshua Nichols]

Re: Help no oil in lower unit

Strange you heard it on the water... Now ya don't.. Makes me wonder how low was it? A qt maybe? Dry ran gears... Major bummer.. Try for a a replacement... Next time change your own outdrive oil or check everything Joe's Shop does...