Fuel delivery

rickasbury

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I seem to be having a fuel "delivery" problem-
2006 MPI 350/5.0, bravo lll.
Short recap, boat seldom used over 3 years and started to get it back to the water. 320 hours.

Pumped out and desposed of 75 gallons of fuel. Water and some crap in the fuel and that was pumping out through the fuel rail when I took a sample.
Ended up replacing the starter trying to crank- it was at its end. New starter in, two bolts, two hot wires and one small post that goes to the alternator I believe.
As the starter was dying it sounded like it wanted to start but stumbling.
New starter cranking but getting no firing.
I thought I only had one fuel pump but turns out I have the cool fuel- I know it's common, just never had that problem.
I dropped the fuel water separator and it was dry. I suspect the engine was trying to start on the fuel that was left in it, so the high pressure pump in the cool fuel on the port side of the motor would be working? I pulled the regular fuel filter to make sure no restrictions going back. That low pressure pump is like 600 bucks. The high pressure one I did order- it was 45 bucks which is pretty much a std gm pump.

So how does this system work?

When t turn the key I get the wirr..that must be the high pressure pump trying to load up the fuel rail?

What energizes the low pressure pump? It just pumps into the fuel water separator to be sucked out of there by the high pressure pump? How do I test the plug for power? What triggers that pump to pump fuel?

Fuses- on the top of the motor by that push button master selonoid, there is a flat fuse bar with 3 yellow/10 Amp fuses that at least one I'm told is fuel pump related. They are all fine. There are two other relays I have no clue what they are or how to check them.

While it might be a coincidence I can't help lean to something electrical...when the starter gave up the ghost it made a terrible electrical short kind of sound...like an electric chair in a horror movie...but nothing tripped that I can find..I don't recall undoing any other wires to get the starter out but the timing is off

I don't know if buying a manual would do me any good? It would have to be pretty basic to be of use. If I got a mobile vessel view, would that possibly give me a code? I know it won't for fuel or fuel pressures but if something else was zapped?

Sure looking for some ideas!
 
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Scott Danforth

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Get factory service manual

Oil pressure switch and starter R terminal

Did you clean the tank, anti-siphon valve, and pickup tube? I personally would run the motor from a remote tank to get the rest of the issues addressed
 

rickasbury

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Well tight now it won't run on anything- fuel pours out of the fuel line after the filter. Pickup/ low pressure pump not pulling fuel..
 

Scott Danforth

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with the pumps connected to a different tank?
 

rickasbury

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with the pumps connected to a different tank?
The lift or fuel pick up is not running. I have about 3' of line from the pump to the tank with a fuel filter in-between. There are no restrictions of the fuel. I need to understand how that pump in intergized, how to check the plug for power and how to test the pump. The connector is just two wires..there is no fuel regulator on the pump, not external anyway..
 

alldodge

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Fuel pumps are energized by the ECM applying a ground to one side of the relay coil. The other side gets 12V from the Main Power Relay (MPR)

Which cool fuel do you have (no serial number listed)?
 

rickasbury

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Fuel pumps are energized by the ECM applying a ground to one side of the relay coil. The other side gets 12V from the Main Power Relay (MPR)

Which cool fuel do you have (no serial number listed)?
Ow038097 is my engine serial number- thought I had it above. So how can I test if the low pressure pump is getting a signal and assume if it is the pump is bad..for 600 bucks I'd like to make the best decision I can!
Thanks-
 

nola mike

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Ow038097 is my engine serial number- thought I had it above. So how can I test if the low pressure pump is getting a signal and assume if it is the pump is bad..for 600 bucks I'd like to make the best decision I can!
Thanks-
Have you tried measuring the voltage across the plug pins?
 

alldodge

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S/N shows a boost pump with 1st Gen cool fuel, 555 ECM and HSV distributor

Fuel pressure should be 43 psi at the rail

Relay setup, MPR and FP

555 relays.jpg
 

rickasbury

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I
Have you tried measuring the voltage across the plug pins?
I have not- would it have constant voltage only while running or the key in the first position? I understand what alldodge posted, at least in theory but I don't understand when that happens and I don't understand what turns it off and on- unless there is some sort of internal pressure regulator that turns it off when the system is full?
 

rickasbury

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Now I will just have to find someone that knows what to do with this...I believe my problem is in the pickup or I guess what your calling the boost pump. I don't see that on this drawing? The cool fuel pump is what sends the pressurized fuel to rail correct? And where is that fuse holder?
 

alldodge

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Key ON, MPR energizes and sends power thru out ECM and to FP relay

ECM powers up, hear beep and then applies ground to pin A-19 for couple seconds which powers on FP

If you put meter on pin A-19 or pi 86 of FP relay before key is turned ON you will see 0V. Key ON, 12V to relay coil and "may" see 12V then 0V when ECM energizes relay to power FP relay. When ground is removed will see 12V again

If you don't see 12V at any time then the fuse is blown, MPR is not energizing, bad connection, or relay coil is burned out

Boost pump is powered by the same FP relay. It's a add-on kit supplied by Merc to help stop vapor lock

The Boost pump can be removed and run without for testing with a bypass
 

rickasbury

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Key ON, MPR energizes and sends power thru out ECM and to FP relay

ECM powers up, hear beep and then applies ground to pin A-19 for couple seconds which powers on FP

If you put meter on pin A-19 or pi 86 of FP relay before key is turned ON you will see 0V. Key ON, 12V to relay coil and "may" see 12V then 0V when ECM energizes relay to power FP relay. When ground is removed will see 12V again

If you don't see 12V at any time then the fuse is blown, MPR is not energizing, bad connection, or relay coil is burned out

Boost pump is powered by the same FP relay. It's a add-on kit supplied by Merc to help stop vapor lock

The Boost pump can be removed and run without for testing with a bypass
Interesting...I'm looking at the circuit and I see a switch for power ...what controls the boost pump to turn on and off? The fuse rectangular 3 fuses I see in the drawing also- and there is a FP relay which is one of the relays I also mentioned. I have two. Same part I think, might switch to see if I get power, when I know hot to check the power. I will digest this very slowly (thank you) I did order some sort of manual..so when I'm checking those spots for voltage, how long will it stay hot? What do i use for ground, motor? I have the pump off- can I test first to see if the plug has power, +/- on each post? I'm by myself checking so not the luxury of being in the bilge while someone hits the key. I like the idea of fuel jumping but would only prove I have a problem in that circuit or pump right?
 
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rickasbury

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Factory manual? Hope you didn't waste money on a Chilton, Haynes, Seloc or other non-factual, non factory manual
I figured I would not understand the factory manual so yes...I have no idea where that pin alldoge says to check and how to- I need pictures of where these connections are!
 
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Scott Danforth

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Seloc, Haynes and Chilton are know to have the wrong information.
 

rickasbury

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If you think it would be worth it to buy factory I will but guessing they are not cheap and I get why..
 
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