Flooring material Question.

[legacycycles]

Ok,Ive been reading about floor replacement and so forth,and there seems to be several different ideas about what to use. There is OSB,CDX,Marine,Traeted,non Treated And list goes on. But the price differences are Huge. Now Just for the sake of simplicty lets talk about just plywoods. We can leave OSB and the Particle board stuff out.
While browsing lowes 3/4 pine plain ole plywood flooring is about 16bux.
While treated 3/4 fir is right at 40bux.
I understand the differences in the 2 but my thought process is this. If you use a good thick 3/4 whatever and secure properley and wrap and seal it in resin and cloth is the extra coat justified?
Just some food for thought.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Flooring material Question.

IMHO, ext. Grade plywood, properly prepared by coating with resin, applying mat and cloth with additional coats of resin (paying close attention to the edges) and then using Peanut Butter to Fillet the edges and then Tab the edges will yield a Deck/Sole (Boats don't have floors) that will last for more years than the owner cares to own the boat. That is, IF all instances of drilling or cutting into said deck is followed by sealing all areas with resin, mat and cloth to ensure no water intrusion. But like I said when I started. This is MY HUMBLE OPINION. My Preference is to use MDO Or HDO and follow the same procedures listed above. The resin used in this plywood is the same as Marine Grade so if water intrusion does occur you have a bit more protection AND your cost is approx. 30 to 40 % less than Marine Grade. You won't find this at Lowe's or HD. Quality Lumber Yards will have it or can Order it for you.

http://www.pacificwoodlaminates.com/img/PDFs/PlywoodGuide.pdf

I'm just sayin...

 

[legacycycles]

Re: Flooring material Question.

IMHO, ext. Grade plywood, properly prepared by coating with resin, applying mat and cloth with additional coats of resin (paying close attention to the edges) and then using Peanut Butter to Fillet the edges and then Tab the edges will yield a Deck/Sole (Boats don't have floors) that will last for more years than the owner cares to own the boat. That is, IF all instances of drilling or cutting into said deck is followed by sealing all areas with resin, mat and cloth to ensure no water intrusion. But like I said when I started. This is MY HUMBLE OPINION. My Preference is to use MDO Or HDO and follow the same procedures listed above. The resin used in this plywood is the same as Marine Grade so if water intrusion does occur you have a bit more protection AND your cost is approx. 30 to 40 % less than Marine Grade. You won't find this at Lowe's or HD. Quality Lumber Yards will have it or can Order it for you.

http://www.pacificwoodlaminates.com/img/PDFs/PlywoodGuide.pdf

I'm just sayin...

Thanks for the reply and the link. Interesting reading. Any idea of an estimated cost of the HDO? It looks to be a really quality product. If i decide to keep this boat and replace i will defintley condider it as an option.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Flooring material Question.

Ok,Ive been reading about floor replacement and so forth,and there seems to be several different ideas about what to use. There is OSB,CDX,Marine,Traeted,non Treated And list goes on. But the price differences are Huge. Now Just for the sake of simplicty lets talk about just plywoods. We can leave OSB and the Particle board stuff out.
While browsing lowes 3/4 pine plain ole plywood flooring is about 16bux.
While treated 3/4 fir is right at 40bux.
I understand the differences in the 2 but my thought process is this. If you use a good thick 3/4 whatever and secure properley and wrap and seal it in resin and cloth is the extra coat justified?
Just some food for thought.

Hello legacycycles...

First off..your right not to talk about OSB or Particle board and boats..a Big No No..

Second..what Is the application ( you say Floor replacement..are you talking about the main deck ? are you talking about cockpit..or down in the forward vbirth/head area of a 50 footer ? ) . Teak and holly Sole for a Sailboat ?..Teak and holly for a pleasure boat ? Or just a small boat Floor/deck that needs replacing...

As you can see..there are different plys for applications...

And then this is a Very good question..to buy better ply $$ .. or cheapo ply and put more $ in the sealing/glassing..

You can waste 40 bucks on a trial run with glass and resin ( theres your makeup $ of just getting the good stuff )..you can have Major air voids with the wrong wood that you use ( again wasting time/resin/$$ ) . or you can do it right/wrong the second time.

Lets not beat around the bush here...Pros use pro things/materials..

Why ? .. not because its cheaper in the short or long term.. its because We just dont Work on ONE BOAT !! ..

Lemme put it to you this way..

Materials costs ... Some plys cost More to prep then the Other plys that dont need as much resin to prep for the application.. ( bigger ply jobs ).

Its just not worth it IMO..If you dont have the $$ to buy a good product..then you shouldnt buy it... ( like buying a crap PC..thinking you can just add a good sound card to make it sound good ) ..

YD.

 

[legacycycles]

Re: Flooring material Question.

Wow,you sound like me comparing parts from different manufactures. I own and operate a motorcycle shop and deal with cost vrs quality on a daily basis.
First off im dealing with a 20 ft bass boat,and the only floor i can see would be less than a single sheet,so cost is not a concern.
My thought process is simple,if your going to wrap the wood in cloth and resin why spend money on a good wood? In theroy if done right there will be no moisture or water penetration through the glass. I didnt know if there was a reason other than a "because".

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Flooring material Question.

HDO should run you approx. $70.00 to $80.00 a sheet for 5/8". That should be a good thickness for your deck.

I'm just sayin...

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Flooring material Question.

My thought process is simple,if your going to wrap the wood in cloth and resin why spend money on a good wood? In theroy if done right there will be no moisture or water penetration through the glass. I didnt know if there was a reason other than a "because".

Sorry I wasnt more clear on my answer above ( having to deal with the little ones and there new christmas toys lol ) .

Basically the cheaper wood Normally costs more to prep/glass then the good stuff. That means more time..and more money that you Thought you were going to save.

Other that that.. YES .. IF the wood is prepped/glassed correctly .. you can essentially use any plywood you want. There are a few caviats about using cheaper ply vs. Marine..like voids, glues, longevity etc.

Personally I still believe spending the extra 40-50 bucks for the deck ( normallly exposed to more water, wear and tear and abuse than anyplace else on the boat ) is worth it..

Hope this answers the question now .

YD.

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Flooring material Question.

Use some 1/2" pressure treated CDX. Dry it well, cut it to shape and coat with poly resin on all sides. Put a layer or two of FG cloth on the plywood deck, and use additional coats of poly resin to fill in the cloth weave.

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Flooring material Question.

Thicker plywood is unnecessary, as is epoxy resin.

 

[Cadwelder]

Re: Flooring material Question.

Okay, thought I'd forever stay out of the plywood arguments, but I spoke with a rep from a plywood manufacturer and got the dope on plywood. YD is simply correct that marine grade is by far the best. The solid plys of the marine grade means there are no voids in the plys that can trap water, and the rep told me that the glue used (by thier company anyway) is a better quiality than standard exterior grade. Now with that said, he told me if you just can't afford the MG then AC exterior fir would be the next choice, OSB and Partical and not even in the equation for a boat. Also he pointed out that the solid core of the MG helps prevent it from warping while cutting and shaping it also.

He also stated that they make a cabinet grade plywood that is solid core but it doesn't have the quiality of glue used since its not intended to be used where moisture is present.

Just my 2 cents worth, that came from a person who knows plywood.

 

[legacycycles]

Re: Flooring material Question.

First to Yach doc: Thats basically what i was thinking. However im missing the extra cost part. Resin and cloth are resin and cloth,why would it cost more to coat a cheaper grade compared to a higher grade? Other than labor.
Not trying to start an argument or be bullheaded just asking?

To Chris: 1/2 seems kinda thin,i was thinking along lines of 5/8-3/4. However i guess the cloth and resin would make it much stronger.

And last but not least Cadwell: This wood thing is about like motor oil to us gearheads. The argument goes on forever. Its allmost seems like a nobrainer.
Marine grade is desinged for marine applications. Seems like a smart choice untill you wrap it in glass. Then were back to square 1. Does it really matter?

And on a personall note thanks for all options and ideas. I will make a descision once i get started on this little project. The only thing im pretty certian on, will be whatever materiel i choose will be coverd top side with regular ole poly resin and cloth,and resin evrywhere else. Then maybe we can get into gelcoat vrs Auto paint...lol..

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Flooring material Question.

Well, I would think the thickness of the plywood will determine how much distance is may span. How far apart are the stringers in the boat? Too far for 1/2 plywood? What about the support the foam gives to the floor?

If you want to spend the extra $$ on the thicker plywood and don't mind the weight, well it is your boat!

 

[legacycycles]

Re: Flooring material Question.

Well, I would think the thickness of the plywood will determine how much distance is may span. How far apart are the stringers in the boat? Too far for 1/2 plywood? What about the support the foam gives to the floor?

If you want to spend the extra $$ on the thicker plywood and don't mind the weight, well it is your boat!

I see what your saying,I didnt even think about the foam being part of the structure of the boat even though i know it acts that way as well. This is why i started this thread,Thanks.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Flooring material Question.

You can make MG ( basically... Aside from the glue used and the Voids in the ply ) with cheepo ply wrapped with glass..

The one thing your going to contend with is the amount of resin/saturation you have to Prep the cheepo ply to get it up to grade with MG ( and you will Never infact do this because of the Way other plys are produced ).

Your going to spend Way more resin/time to prep ply to properly glass up on this ( decks/trans or stringers ).

Take some crap ply..resin coat it..then try to put your 1.5 oz mat on it without so many air voids its freaking crazy. Now..you want your Bond to wood good ? .. your going to have to prep/resin coat your el cheepo wood with More resin just to have the glass layer stick to it right.

Cheap Ply will Drink up resin ( poly or epoxy ) so fast that its going to take a few more steps to get your wood compatible with layups ( now we arent talking about Voids..or glue in your cheap wood now..just glassing ) .. that extra resin will cover or almost cover the cost in just buying MG wood that IS made/produced for this. ( You will Never bring CDX OSB ABX Pressure Treated or any other ply up to this standard..perioid ).

For a Few bucks more..why even why would you want to do this ? ( and its not even cheaper to use the crap ply..its allmost a wash when your done prepping and glassing ).

Ill tell you one thing.. Ply is NOT ply.. I can go on and on..but you bring your boat in my shop, you pay for the Deck/wood/CDX or whatever and want me to glass that ply in.. No problem ! Its going to cost you Bucks for me to guarantee Your wood in Your floor because Im now going to have to use More resin and take extra steps to fullfill that obligation.

Now you as a DIY..use OSB ( whatever ply ) if you want .. with whatever glass/resins you choose.. wont be from me..

MG is the Only way to go .. for Anything on your boat ...

YD.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Flooring material Question.

Cheap Ply will Drink up resin ( poly or epoxy ) so fast that its going to take a few more steps to get your wood compatible with layups

I can attest to this.

 

[legacycycles]

Re: Flooring material Question.

You can make MG ( basically... Aside from the glue used and the Voids in the ply ) with cheepo ply wrapped with glass..

The one thing your going to contend with is the amount of resin/saturation you have to Prep the cheepo ply to get it up to grade with MG ( and you will Never infact do this because of the Way other plys are produced ).

Your going to spend Way more resin/time to prep ply to properly glass up on this ( decks/trans or stringers ).

Take some crap ply..resin coat it..then try to put your 1.5 oz mat on it without so many air voids its freaking crazy. Now..you want your Bond to wood good ? .. your going to have to prep/resin coat your el cheepo wood with More resin just to have the glass layer stick to it right.

Cheap Ply will Drink up resin ( poly or epoxy ) so fast that its going to take a few more steps to get your wood compatible with layups ( now we arent talking about Voids..or glue in your cheap wood now..just glassing ) .. that extra resin will cover or almost cover the cost in just buying MG wood that IS made/produced for this. ( You will Never bring CDX OSB ABX Pressure Treated or any other ply up to this standard..perioid ).

For a Few bucks more..why even why would you want to do this ? ( and its not even cheaper to use the crap ply..its allmost a wash when your done prepping and glassing ).

Ill tell you one thing.. Ply is NOT ply.. I can go on and on..but you bring your boat in my shop, you pay for the Deck/wood/CDX or whatever and want me to glass that ply in.. No problem ! Its going to cost you Bucks for me to guarantee Your wood in Your floor because Im now going to have to use More resin and take extra steps to fullfill that obligation.

Now you as a DIY..use OSB ( whatever ply ) if you want .. with whatever glass/resins you choose.. wont be from me..

MG is the Only way to go .. for Anything on your boat ...

YD.

Interesting. I didnt realize the different plywoods would soak more or less resin depending on the type used. I also understand where your coming from as far a gaurantee on work. When im doing my work for customers there is no second best period. I either do it right or i dont it period. Agin thanks for all the info.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Flooring material Question.

Rule #4. .. dont believe everything you read .

Try it for yourself.

Also..the MG does not Warp as much as the regular ply when you rip it down to 10"x70" .. ( unless you get some/Some.. wet Mohog MG ply ( Im not impressed with this stuff.. doug fir MG is what I use )).

YD.

 

[legacycycles]

Re: Flooring material Question.

Rule #4. .. dont believe everything you read .

Try it for yourself.

YD.

I second that one for sure. It never fails to see someone who has no idea post a reply and think there is no other way. Ive never been scarred to try anything,and sometimes i fail,but i never quit,and i allways learn.

 

[smallboatlover]

Re: Flooring material Question.

well im planing on puting in a new deck in my boat its a 40 year old boat and i not going to pay 80 bucks for one sheet for the 14' boat. i'm buying un presitreaded wood and going to give it a good coat of resin on both sides and edges that should do it if you plan on puting a lot of money into that boat then go for it if you just want a cheap deck that will work go with unpresitreated plywood and put a crap look of resin and you will be fine dont worry

 

[LonLB]

Re: Flooring material Question.

The factory flooring that you are replacing was encapsulated by glass/resin.....Key here is that you are 'replacing' it, because it is rotten.



Based on what I see, NON encapsulated wood used on Pontoon decking, lasts longer than the glass boat decking that is encapsulated with glass and resin.

And the pontoon deck is constantly exposed to water.