bought boat, cracked block, legal recourse?

[the man]

Okay, I think I know the answer to this, but I am going to ask anyway.

In case it matters, this took place in Washington state. To make this as short as possible:

I bought a boat that I found on craigslist. I heard it run, but did not do a sea trial. The boat is in excellent cosmetic shape, and was obviously taken care of. I specifically asked, on at least two separate occasions, about winterizing, and referred to "how do I know it doesn't have a cracked block?" I was told repeatedly that the boat did not have a cracked block, that it was winterized, that the water was removed every winter, that they knew about the dangers of freezing, etc. Guess what? Cracked block.

Do I have any recourse, or am I just an idiot with a good looking boat that doesn't run?

 

[oldjeep]

Re: bought boat, cracked block, legal recourse?

Pretty much this "just an idiot with a good looking boat that doesn't run" unless you got some sort of written warranty

 

[Pez Vela]

Re: bought boat, cracked block, legal recourse?

Private sellers may not misrepresent the condition of their boats by their statements, whether intentionally or negligently. To do so, either way, is a species of fraud and is actionable. Being able to prove that a private seller made such a statement is difficult, and most likely will hinge on your credibility versus the seller's.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: bought boat, cracked block, legal recourse?

Check the consumer protection laws in your state. There may be some that protect you when buying a used vehicle (car/boat, etc) in terms of fitness for use for a certain period of time.

I believe that in my home state (MA) the seller is on the hook for 30 days if any repairs are needed that amount to more than 10% of the purchase price.

Lesson learned though . . . prove the facts about a boat to yourself. Do not take the seller's word for it.

 

[25thmustang]

Re: bought boat, cracked block, legal recourse?

Honestly he may not have known it was cracked...

 

[Pez Vela]

Re: bought boat, cracked block, legal recourse?

Check the consumer protection laws in your state.

These laws do not apply to private party sales. Private party sales are "as is." Nonetheless, despite there being no implied warranties in private party sales, sellers may not affirmatively misrepresent the condition of the item sold. The difficult situation arises, where as here, a private seller is asked a specific question. To avoid liability, the seller should remain silent, or couch his answer with a "to the best of my knowledge," or "I really don't know," leaving it to the buyer to do his own due diligence to satisfy himself as to the condition of the item.

Honestly he may not have known it was cracked...

If that was the case, the seller should have said, "I have seen no evidence that the block is cracked." To go beyond that could be misleading, but in the real world, a boat buyer should check things out for themselves if they are concerned. It is simply the prudent thing to do.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: bought boat, cracked block, legal recourse?

These laws do not apply to private party sales. Private party sales are "as is." Nonetheless, despite there being no implied warranties in private party sales, sellers may not affirmatively misrepresent the condition of the item sold. . . . .

There are variations from state to state . . . that is why I recommended he check the laws in his state.

Just as an example, here are the laws from my state . . . private party sales are covered by the law.

A Massachusetts Consumer Guide:
The Used Vehicle Warranty Law

The Used Vehicle Warranty Law protects consumers who buy used vehicles from a dealer or private party in Massachusetts. ( M.G.L. c. 90 ?7N 1/4) The law requires dealers to provide consumers with a written warranty against defects that impair the vehicle's use or safety, and requires private parties to disclose any known use or safety defects.

The Used Vehicle Warranty Law provides you with protections and remedies, including mandatory repairs, refunds, or repurchases. It does not cover all vehicles or all defects, and not all problems will qualify your vehicle for repurchase.
If you purchased a vehicle fewer than 14 days ago, the fastest way to get relief may be through the " Lemon Aid Law ."
Vehicles Covered:

The law applies to used cars, vans, trucks and demonstration vehicles not covered by the New Car Lemon Law, and which:

• are sold by a Massachusetts dealer or private party,
• cost at least $700 (dealer sales only),
• have fewer than 125,000 miles on the odometer when sold (dealer sales only).

Demonstration or executive vehicles are covered under the law under certain circumstances. You must first determine whether the vehicle meets the requirements of the New Car Lemon Law. You may use the Used Vehicle Warranty Law only if you do not qualify to be accepted for the New Car Lemon Law.

 

[theBrownskull]

Re: bought boat, cracked block, legal recourse?

I would contact the original owner and tell them what you found. Maybe he or she will work with you on the problem. Now if that communication fails you can always file a claim in civil court if this recourse exists in that state. Just check with the county where the boat was purchased. Not living close to where the boat was purchased from can always pose a problem as well.

 

[ajax5240]

Re: bought boat, cracked block, legal recourse?

By the time you get a lawyer, pay court fees, and take the day off to go to the court hearing.. You probably would have been money ahead by getting a short block and fixing the boat.

Best case scenario, if you win in court, the seller would have to take the boat back and return your money. Then you are left with no boat, and still have a legal bill.

Give him a call, and see if he will work with you. Some people are good men and will help you out. Others will tell you tough luck and it is as is.

If you did a bill of sale for the boat, did it say "as is" on it?

 

[90stingray]

Re: bought boat, cracked block, legal recourse?

I vote to contact seller as well and try to work it out.

A buddy bought a model a on eBay from across the country with a supposed rebuilt engine. After it lost oil pressure and we did a rebuild he contacted the seller and he agreed to pay for half of the engine rebuild costs. So some people are not as bad as we all think.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: bought boat, cracked block, legal recourse?

There are variations from state to state . . . that is why I recommended he check the laws in his state.

Just as an example, here are the laws from my state . . . private party sales are covered by the law.


The law applies to used cars, vans, trucks and demonstration vehicles not covered by the New Car Lemon Law, and which:

Per your link, things like this are NOT covered... I don't know of ANY states that extend lemon laws for private party boat sales... In the rest of that link, it states:

Vehicles Not Covered By The Lemon Law:
vehicles built primarily for off-road use;

For the OP... You screwed up. Its fairly easy to catch things like this, and the seller has no obligation to offer you a warranty. It is also somewhat likely he didn't know, at least if it hasn't been in the water this year.

Bigger question is, did you sign anything? I'm assuming there was a bill of sale, and most likely 'as-is' language? In that case, you are REALLY on your own, as you agreed to take the boat in the condition it was in when you signed that paper.

 

[crabby captain john]

Re: bought boat, cracked block, legal recourse?

No compression test? A mechanic should have noticed the block cracked. No sea trial? Sounds like 'whoops'.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: bought boat, cracked block, legal recourse?

Whatever you do DO NOT try to get legal advice on an internet forum.... Contact a LAWYER... most will talk to you for 30 minutes free of charge and be able to tell you whether or not to move forward

 

[frantically relaxing]

Re: bought boat, cracked block, legal recourse?

Not everyone who buys a boat has a sea trial. I'm on my 11th boat in my boating life and I only sea-trialed ONE of them, our '88 Sun Runner. The one I SHOULD'VE sea trialed was the '77 Kona minicruiser, 460 Berkeley jet, it was in a storage garage- Fired up and sounded GREAT! Once we launched it, well--- Turned out to have hardly any oil pressure, oil pan had a zillion rust pinholes, both pushrods for #7 were bent in half, those and their lifters were sitting in the valley under the intake (which explained the no oil pressure problem), the gimbal bearing was in a million pieces, the impeller shaft was bent and that caused the impeller to grind into the pump housing in a couple of places-- Needless to say, she didn't even get up on plane! As bad as all that sounds, I pulled the motor using the hoist in my neighbors garage so I could replace the oil pan (used pan back then was like $8), my friend (free labor) replaced the lifters and 2 new pushrods (about $12), we pulled the jet and put in a new bearing ($15 I think), the housing wasn't too bad and we just cleaned up the impeller edges with some emery cloth, and a friend at a machine shop pressed the shaft back straight and trued it up ($30)- We did all that within a week and were back on the water the next weekend, and she ran like a raped ape for the rest of the summer! I'd just assumed "as is" and what'd I spend, $65 and a few hours of my time. Wasn't worth pursuing the #%*!$& who sold it to me..

Every other boat I ever bought was just fine, or needed very little work, and otherwise gave me (or is still giving me) great service.

Sometimes *&%! happens when you buy something. If you have legal recourse, use it- if not, look for a used block or engine and get the bad one yanked out in the meantime. My son found what turned out to be about a 150 hour complete engine for our Sea Ray for $600. Deals are out there, just be patient and you'll find one to make up for the bad deal...

 

[Pez Vela]

Re: bought boat, cracked block, legal recourse?

There are variations from state to state . . . that is why I recommended he check the laws in his state.

Indeed, Massachusetts' Lemon Law does appear to place an affirmative duty on private sellers to disclose known safety or operational defects in the used cars which they sell. I believe that to be extraordinary, but it does make my blanket statement incorrect, and I appreciate being corrected. Guess what ... I learned something. Thank you.

What remains unclear to me is whether the Massachusetts Lemon Law applies to boat sales. That I will leave to someone with a vested interest in the answer who may choose to plumb the depths of the Commonwealth's statutory regimen.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: bought boat, cracked block, legal recourse?

I did a little searching and found some info for Washington state. The OP would have to see if/how the vehicle laws applied to boats.

Used Car Considerations

There is language about 'implied warranties' and 'as is' sales. So, it is something to look into in order to see if there is any recourse.

Otherwise, the OP could start a "repairing cracked block thread"

 

[JoLin]

Re: bought boat, cracked block, legal recourse?

First, give the seller the benefit of a doubt before you throw a lawyer at him. You didn't sea trial the boat and neither did he. You heard it run and so did he. You didn't know the block was cracked, so it's possible he didn't know it either.

Give him a call and see what he says.

My .02

 

[lakegeorge]

Re: bought boat, cracked block, legal recourse?

Whatever you do DO NOT try to get legal advice on an internet forum.... Contact a LAWYER... most will talk to you for 30 minutes free of charge and be able to tell you whether or not to move forward

This is the best advice you can get, don't listen to anyone on here about legal advice unless they state that they are a LAWYER. Most don't know what they are talking about.
Call the previous owner first and then go from there.

 

[gm280]

Re: bought boat, cracked block, legal recourse?

Not sure how much you paid for this boat/motor, but it looks like you have learned a good lesson and will either scrap the engine, OR buy another block and rebuild... Just mark it up to lesson learned and SOME money wasted...

 

[shrew]

Re: bought boat, cracked block, legal recourse?

"how do I know it doesn't have a cracked block?"

1) Drain some oil and look at the color of the oil.

OR

2) Pull one of the valve covers and look at the color of the oil

OR

3) Pay to have a mechanical survey on the boat.

(You can tell if water is getting into the oil becuase after it has been run for a few minutes, the oil will be beige like 'coffee with cream' instead of black. Incidentally, you can't tell by pullng the dipstick because oil doesn't circulate through the dipstick tube).

Do I have any recourse, or am I just an idiot with a good looking boat that doesn't run?

Does the Bill of Sale specifically say "AS IS" or "No Warranty" or something along those lines? If so, you may be out of luck. You may want to seek out a more official source of legal advice. Most here are not lwayers and laws vary by state and country.

Best of luck.