Be careful of what you sign.

[Fishbusters]

This does not seem fair to me or a local judge but only time will tell how it ends. <br />Last Saturday night I rented a motel room for my wife and I. It had all the trimmings with a Jacuzzi tub and all it was my way of saying I love you and a way for us to spend some time while grandma watched the kids. We left home and I took her to the motel to drop off some things and then we went out to eat. While out I bumped into an old student who had a grudge so we decided to leave the area and return to the motel. We get there and head up to the room and proceed to get settled in when crash something came through the window and I heard loud noises and someone trying to get in. We dialed 911 and the police came and arrested this young man. The motel clerk had already checked in on us and after the business was over with the police and we packed up I went to settle the bill for the room as we decided to go home as our night was already ruined. He then informed me that the manager wanted me to leave and I was responsible for the damage to the room and possibly the costs of other rooms vacated by several guests because of the incident. He handed me a paper to sign that stated i agree to them withholding $500 as an estimate of damages which I refused to sign. The manager was called and she said over the phone that if I refused to sign that they would press charges to which I said go ahead. I then left. Not thinking too much about it I forgot I had given them my card at the beginning and they already had the number. Well I got to thinking about things and arranging a warrant when I recalled the credit card# so i called my company and low and behold there was a charge from the motel for the price of the room and what I guessed to be damages. I then went by the motel office and got a copy of the receipt for the room and one for damages also came up. I questioned it and was shown a copy of the statutes governing motels and a copy of the form I signed when I signed in to rent the room. The laws say that I am responsible for damages to the room that are my fault or the fault of anyone that could be considered a guest in my room I argued that this was not the case. The problem is that the paperwork I signed state that I as the renter of the room am responsible for any and all damages to the room during my stay. It further authorizes the motel to charge me with any such damages whether or not I am deemed at fault or charged with any misconduct. I took the bill and all the info I had with me to talk to the judge in the case today as I wanted a restraining order and asked him about it he said that he did not think that it was right and he could not see how I could be responsible for anything as it could just as well been random and not directed at me. He advised talking with the motel manager as the state was pressing charges against the suspect in this matter and they should pursue the monetary damage with the court and have it added into the Vandalism charge. I told him I had already talked with them and what their response was (If I refuse to pay they would press charges on me. BTW they already charged my card and been paid.) He said at this point I need to get a lawyer. All this kept in mind I am now out $605(rounded) on my credit card and in order to get it straightened out I will have to get a lawyer which may or may not do me any good and of course will cost me more money. <br />Moral of the story is watch out what you sign for and make sure you know 100% what it might entail. BTW the response of the motel revolves around well then we will have to press charges. Or you get the judges statement in writing and let your lawyer send it to us. The last thing I that was said by the manager is at this point I will only talk to your lawyer in this matter. Great business dealing as far as I am concerned. I guess my next step is to contest the charge with my credit card company and maybe they can handle it especially since the court date is on the 16th and if there is a judgment or a plea that goes in my favor it only backs me up.

 

[sloopy]

Re: Be careful of what you sign.

will the student be a witness in the trial?

 

[SCO]

Re: Be careful of what you sign.

Not a Lawyer, but agreed.If you can get the money up front then they can take you to small claims court and lose. Otherwise, you can take them to small claims court and win. Ps, treat them civilly from here out thinking only of the courtroom endgame and how to win there. I bet that contract is unreasonable and unenforcable. If they had a fire, you'd be responsible. Also, press charges for what? On my read you did nothing criminal what so ever. They may be the ones criminally liable for theft.

 

[12Footer]

Re: Be careful of what you sign.

Ask your attorney about the possability of a countersuit, for the hotel ruining a special time, and wating more of your time besides the night they ruined! Man that just can not draw enough vaccumm!!<br />Let us know how it turns-out.<br />These days, ya never know.

 

[DJ]

Re: Be careful of what you sign.

I would go after the "dirtbag" that caused the damage.

 

[KeltonKrew]

Re: Be careful of what you sign.

contest the charges on your credit card. They may see it your way. If not, it will at least delay the $605 until you go through the court. That is the beauty of using charge cards. They are to protect you. I have only had to contest things twice (one with a hotel), and both came out in my favor.<br /><br />Good Luck

 

[crab bait]

Re: Be careful of what you sign.

yeah, like 12 FOOTER said... that draws about .0001 microns of vaccum..!!<br /><br />yeah, alot of contracts are BOOGUS..<br />they can say all they want & you can sign all you want ... but it don't 'hold water'..<br /><br />i think you'll be O K...<br /><br />keep us updated.. GOOD LUCK...

 

[BR549]

Re: Be careful of what you sign.

Keltonkrew has a good point about disputing the charges, also if it's worth your time you could stir up some publicity for the motel by lodging complaints with the local BBB, your state AG, and check with the local newspaper or tv station to see if they have a consumer advocate reporter. If it's a motel chain write some letters to their corporate office with a cc to all of the above. May not work, but it won't hurt.

 

[miloman]

Re: Be careful of what you sign.

firstly contact you credit card company chargeback division state that the charges were not authorized and you want them returned you will have to do it in writing but thats ok in the interm serve the motel company with a small claims brief for the disputed charges they will have a certain amount of time to file I agree in your statement of claim I would also include a monatry sum for your time being ruined. Along with any out of pocket expenses for the night you know food baby sitter etc that is important as you will need to show loss. then let them sweat as they will be getting hit from the credit card company with the card back and you small claims claim. Then I would contact them and offer settlement. and let it go

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: Be careful of what you sign.

Peter, <br /><br />As they say..."Attack is the best form of defence". <br /><br />I've seen this happen before - you need to attack them fast and hard...counter claim the damages from them (like 12Footer said)...stand your ground...and eventually, hopefully both sides will agree out of court to back down - and you get your money back.<br /><br />Make them think you're a wild man who'll rest at nothing until you get satisfction... they'll just have to back down.<br /><br />Good luck

 

[ebbtide176]

Re: Be careful of what you sign.

dang PFB, that is a terrible thing to go thru. but at least you've gotten some good info here on other possible options to take. <br /><br />good luck man! sheesh, talk about a messed up evening...<br /><br />now, just FYI, it took me years to get over the habit of saying 'motel' when i really meant 'hotel'... hehehe

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: Be careful of what you sign.

just because you sign a contract doesn't mean it's<br />a legal/binding contract. there's a thing called<br />"consideration" in contract law, and you didn't got none! <br />couldn't even use the room for the night. <br />they wouldn't get a penny from me!<br />1) dispute the charge w/ cc co.<br />2) tell them; "go ahead, sue me"<br />3) forget it, they won't sue.... scare tactics<br />do work in most cases though.<br />just curiuos, what did you do to get this guy so<br />PO'd?<br />good luck,<br />M.Y.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Be careful of what you sign.

PFB, it sucks that you have to go through this. You have received some good advice. Dispute the charge with the credit card company immediately, there you have 30 days from the time the charge was made. Let them know it was billed to you without your agreement. They will take it from there.<br /><br />The Motel manager has some gaul telling you he will have charges brought against you. You did nothing wrong and he has no say if charges are filed against you or not. the police are the only ones that can do that. In fact, I would go so far as to say it was a criminal act for him to charge your credit card without your consent since the damage was caused by an outsider. If the contract really says guests, then he has no leg to stand since the person that did the damage was obviously not a guest. <br /><br />In fact, I would request a refund of your room rate since they did not provide the room you paid for in a reasonable state. That may not stick.<br /><br />File small claims against the motel for your time and stress in dealing with their charges.<br /><br />File small claims against the former student for the same. Unless you think they will get more violent. I would include the time for dinner and any charges you may have had there, and all expenses including the baby sitter. <br /><br />I would also make a call to the DA's office and file a complaint with them stating that the motel threatened you and charged your card illegally and ask them what to do.<br /><br />Whatever you do, good luck. It sounds like the night you had planned was exactly what most wife's really want. I am sorry it did not work out.

 

[Fishbusters]

Re: Be careful of what you sign.

Well I called the card company and they said I have to wait till I get the statement that shows the charge on it even though they show it on the computer before I can dispute the charge on my bill. Of course that will be about the first of next month. I verified this with two people at the company and even though it has gone through it has to wait till I receive the statement. However if I had called the following morning I would have found that the Motel/Hotel (same thing) had put a reserve (for lack of the term) of $500 on my card and I could have done something about it until the charge came through which was the $605 actual cost (not sure of that). So it is now a matter of contacting a few people to get an opinion and small claims court until I can dispute the charges. My card company did say to get all the facts of the case and how things happened and send it when I dispute the charge and they will review everything and if they deem something is wrong with this situation they will handle it. I am out no money for babysitting as grandma was doing it but one other thing was mentioned by a friend I can sue the motel/hotel for not providing a safe enough place for me to stay as all the former student had to do was walk upstairs and do the deed. All I want is the $605 back so I don't have to make payments on it as I usually use the card and pay it off every month anyway. I keep it for ordering things and emergencies. I will let you all know what happens when it is all over with which may take longer than most care to wait with my luck LOL.<br />Two other questions were asked no the ex-student is the perp not a witness. He was not my personal student but my involvement was to catch him doing business on the school grounds. He was arrested with quite a bit of "merchandise" and was taken to jail. Being a minor he only spent 1 year at JJJ and was released. Basically I messed with his income and made him spend some time away from his business. He is not the first I have been involved with that ended up in Jail or has a grudge. He is the first one that ever did anything about it and this was 2 years after the fact he has been out that long. I have had two say thanks for being hard on me and doing the right thing it was what I needed to get straightened up and both at that time were working, had a GED and one had a wife and kid. It is still not going to get me to change anything and I will not be afraid but I may be a little more cautious when I am confronted with another potential situation. In other words instead of leaving the place quietly and heading straight where I am going I will make sure I am not being followed and if I am woe betide the person(s) behind me. I don't know what I could have done differently that would have made things better though.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: Be careful of what you sign.

PFB,<br />my heart goes out 2 u... perhaps the 2 guys who<br />saw the light might intervene on your behalf?<br />I am the type who doesn't take things lying<br />down, and would make some effort to bring this to a head.... how? am not really sure????<br />sorta sticky sit.<br />best of luck!<br />M.Y.

 

[Navigator]

Re: Be careful of what you sign.

PFB,<br />Shame you have to go through this...thats the trouble with "minors" in the legal system. They get off scott free, while the victims are at fault. We need to get some representation in the government who is actually "has" grey matter between the ears and get some legislation to lower the "minor" offense age to say 12 or so. I'm sorry, but a 17 year old know EXACTLY what he's doing.<br /><br />Anyways...<br />Back to your dilema. The hotel is holding you responsible for damage to your room caused by you or one of your guests. If the damage occurs from the outside, (through the glass) then technically it was the hotels responsibility to provide you the renter with security and safety. If you look into the law as to what actually "defines" what you actually rented, you will see they rented you the right to use their facility for a time period. They did not rent you the physical door, or the glass in the window, or the concrete out in front. That is all part of the physical structure of the facility and is covered under their general insurance clause.<br /> The person who broke the window, although known to you, was not your guest unless you invited him into your room. He was a vagrant loitering on the property. They cannot use the "guest" excuse unless they can prove, ie via surveillance camera, that you had in fact invited him to your room. The burden of proof rests on the hotel as to the guest status.<br /> What I would do while you wait is to inflate your own chest a bit and go on the offense.<br />File charges against the hotel for failing to protect it guests and provide "reasonable" security. Officially, you life was being threatened and the hotel did nothing to prevent it. If the hotel has no loitering or no soliciting signed in place then they are implying responsibility for the safety of their guests. Make sure you name the hotel owner personally as well as the hotel manager on duty as individual defendants. Also file against the hotels insurance company for duress and undue hardship caused by the incident. Dont be the vicious litigant and try to sue for unreasonable charges, but simply ask for damages to cover any costs incurred because of the incident. In most cases, if the dollar amount is small, people will settle out of court. The cost to file a motion in court is minimal. Just flexing a little muscle and letting them know you wont stand for if may get the whole thing resolved.<br />Whatever you do, dont lose you temper or get angry. That will makes things much worse.<br /><br />Sorry to ramble, but I personally am sick and tired of businesses scr@wing the little man over stupid things.<br /><br />Nav

 

[plywoody]

Re: Be careful of what you sign.

You have recieved good advice: You need to do two things.<br /><br />1. Dispute the charge with cc company (which you are doing, but keep all correspondence including envelopes and postmarks, and don't dally in responding to them, as there are crucial time requirements for the dispute to be valid.)<br /><br />2. Contact an attorney, get yourself very organized with all the facts, etc, lay it out to the attorney and see what he says re how to proceed. There are very specific ways to go about this, and trying to do it yourself will lead to frustration and probably a lack of results. It is well worth the intial consultation fee of an attorney. SB less than $100 or so.<br /><br />John