Another New Guy / Aristocraft 19

[Day Dreamer]

I guess it's one of those things that just happen. One day you are just joe blo out there working for a living and you buy an old boat because you thought it would be fun for the family. It's just an old boat anyway.....right.....what could go bad on a boat?........they'd last forever.....right?

Well, when I gave that gentleman a check for my 1980 Aristocraft 9teen, I wasn't buying a boat, I was buying an education. I've learned so much since then, it's amazing. And I continue to learn and don't see an end in sight.

Now, I've learned that I have the dreaded water in hull/foam disease. Not horribly, but it's there. Pretty much resting in the bottom of the hull/foam. The water is clear and the foam actually looks fine albiet moist. I opened up a hole under the carpet and opened up a 3" hole that was covered by a previous owner.

I've read all of the stuff that I could fine on this subject and have determined that an attempt at draining it is pretty much a waste of time.

If you don't know, an Aristocraft was the first boat to be all fiberglass. They didn't use wood in the hull. My thought is to cut out two panels in the floor that happens to rest under carpet in order to clean as much foam out as I can reach. Since there are no wood stringers or formers, do you think that I can get away with this as a solution. I would make every attempt to allow the remaining foam dry before replacing the voided areas with fresh foam.

At that point, the panels should be able to be replaced and new carpet put over the area and it would be covered up nicely.

Any thoughts? Like I said, I'm new to much of this, so all opinions (pos or neg) are welcomed. I really like this boat and would like to keep it for a good while and keep making it better and better little by little.

Let the learning continue.

 

[oops!]

Re: Another New Guy / Aristocraft 19

welcome to i boats........this is boat university, so start yer learnin!

read skanky beast revisited at the top of the forum....all of it.

the hull extension thread has safety tips and proper gear, as well as fiber glassing tecqincs and instructions.

I guess it's one of those things that just happen. One day you are just joe blo out there working for a living and you buy an old boat because you thought it would be fun for the family. It's just an old boat anyway.....right.....what could go bad on a boat?........they'd last forever.....right?

HEH HEH


Now, I've learned that I have the dreaded water in hull/foam disease.

WELCOME TO THE CLUB....ILL BE SELLING TEE SHIRTS SOON

If you don't know, an Aristocraft was the first boat to be all fiberglass. They didn't use wood in the hull.

WHAT IS THE DECK MADE OF?

I would make every attempt to allow the remaining foam dry before replacing the voided areas with fresh foam.

YOU'LL BE DEAD AND GONE BEFORE THAT STUFF DRIES

having no wood in the craft is a really good thing, there is guys here that WILL NOT replace any wood in the boat....there goiin all composite.

you will need to get rid of ALL the foam.....and replace it.

to do that you will need to cut the deck out....not just arm holes.

once your in there take a core sample of the foam in the stringers.

you can be done this little proj in a jiffy.......

this place will give you all the answers you can handle, from pros, to enthusiastic amatures that really know what they are doing.

hope that helps
cheers
oops

 

[fixb52s]

Re: Another New Guy / Aristocraft 19

+1 with Oops. If you have water in the foam, you will need to remove ALL of it. It will not dry out! That meand the entire deck will hae to come out so you can get it all. Read up on some of the foam posts here and you will see where one member pulled a chunk of foam and let it sit a few months. It never dried out.

You are right about these boats giving us an education. And Murphy just LOVES to mess with boat owners. ​

 

[oops!]

Re: Another New Guy / Aristocraft 19

You are right about these boats giving us an education.​

ya know b52.....

i was just out on my back deck looking at an ol hot tub i got.....the kids were jumping in it and put a whole in the floor.......

years ago....i would have been afarid of tackeling that job....but after what i have learned about different types of repairs.......

and the overall knowlage that i can do it.

building boats isnt just the gratification of a job well done, its a life learning thing about yourself.

 

[Day Dreamer]

Re: Another New Guy / Aristocraft 19

Let's see, to answer a couple of questions about this boat.

1. The deck is made out of fiberglass. It uses basically the outer bottom hull and then an inner hull sits inside of that, which has the entire floor molded in this piece. Then there is a glass top piece on top of those two parts. There is foam that goes in before the inner hull is added.

2. There are no stringers in this boat. The good news, there are no stringers to rot. Infact, about the only thing that can rot is the foam. I suppose that if the water was there long enough, the glass could delaminate, but that would take a while.

3. I won't be really going down through "arm holes". There are panels that measure about 18"x36" that lie beneath carpet. Those panels will get you laterally from the bilge to the side wall hull. Longitutinally, they will get you to the back and almost all the way toward the front. These panels exist on both sides of the center "ski locker" or bilge area. I should be able to get all the way to the back of the boat but not the front. there might be some foam towards the front that I just can't reach easily. Really only a foot or so, because there is not any foam in the bow area.

I believe that most of the wet stuff is resting at the back of the boat. I can't envision taking the entire glass floor out to get every bit of foam out. It's just not real practicle at this point. I believe it's rather dry towards the front anyway, due to the way it sits in the water.

Keep the ideas and opinions coming though, I'm still learning and sometimes my opinion doesn't count for much.

Thanks!

 

[Day Dreamer]

Re: Another New Guy / Aristocraft 19

"read skanky beast revisited at the top of the forum....all of it."

Hey oops, I read this maybe a week ago or so. I was so impressed with what he did with that boat and the write up was excellent! I've got to insist that this boat is different. That one had loads of wood structure in it. Mine has none.

What I'm trying to determine is that if there is no wood in the hull, what harm would a little moisture left in part of the foam really cause? It may cause a lot, I don't know, but that's the question that I'm trying to answer.

Everything is a trade-off. It's going to take a lot to get me to justify removing what is basically a one piece interior.

Thanks for the reply's and keep em coming. I need all the rebuttles that I can get.

 

[redfury]

Re: Another New Guy / Aristocraft 19

What about a chemical removal of the foam? Is there something he could spray on the foam to dissolve it without damaging the resins in the fiberglass?

 

[Day Dreamer]

Re: Another New Guy / Aristocraft 19

I think that an acetone or thinner would desolve it. I just realized another answer too. I have front and rear facing seats that have neat spaces underneath that I could cut an opening into and then reach the rest of the foam. There again, I could replace the foam and then close the openings.

With the way this Aristocraft 19 is constructed, I think it offers some nice answers to the dreaded "water in the hull" disease. At least compared to what I've read regarding other set ups.

Chuck

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=300dwlk&s=3

 

[fixb52s]

Re: Another New Guy / Aristocraft 19

What I'm trying to determine is that if there is no wood in the hull, what harm would a little moisture left in part of the foam really cause?

What seems like a little moisture could mean the foam is saturated. If it is wet in the back, it will also be wet in the front. What harm would it be? By itself, nothing structurally if there is no wood. But water in the foam adds a lot of weight to the boat. In some cases, it adds hundreds of pounds! Someone did a test a few months ago by weighing a chunk of saturated foam, then dry new stuff. According to his calulations, he had an extra 700 pounds of weight from the water. Not only will the boat sit lower in the water, it could list to one side and become sluggish.

When I tore my boat apart, the foam seemed dry on the top, but as I dug deeper it became apparent that it was totaly saturated down deeper. After I dug it out, there was puddles in the hull. I really did not notice the weight as I tore it out, but did when I took the bags of the old stuff to the curb.​

 

[i386]

Re: Another New Guy / Aristocraft 19

IIRC, solvents don't really affect polyurethane foam once it's cured.

 

[Day Dreamer]

Re: Another New Guy / Aristocraft 19

Hey b52,

Thanks for the info and I agree with you on all fronts. I think that I can easily get to the forward foam by opening an area beneath the front seats if needed.

I just notices that you are in Valrico. I'm in Wesley Chapel, just north of Tampa.

With access seeming easy, I'm ok with removing all of the foam. Now I've gotta start learning what it takes to replace the foam.

Thanks!

Chuck

 

[Willyclay]

Re: Another New Guy / Aristocraft 19

Before you start ripping out the foam, you probably need to address the question of whether or not the foam provides any structural rigidity to the hull. My 1965 Lonestar Medallion II had what they called "Foam Pac Construction" and the foam took the place of ribs and stringers. You might want to contact Aristocraft and see if their archives can tell you what's what. Great, classic old boat by the way. Good luck!

 

[Day Dreamer]

Re: Another New Guy / Aristocraft 19

Thanks Will,

I contacted Aristocraft and Scott told me that he'd help me when the time came to deal with it. There is a center bilge that offers some structure and it has foam on either side of it.

I can't tell you how awsome Bill and Scott are with support for a boat that's been out of production for 28 years. Now that's standing behind a product.

I love the boat and am committed to it. I'm comfortable that the foam solution is rather straight forward, especially with the way this boat is constructed.

Chuck

 

[ziggy]

Re: Another New Guy / Aristocraft 19

for ya folks that are interested. here's a sketch of an aristocraft 19. very unique for sure.
http://www.aristocraftboats.com/fiberglassbrochures/Incomparable19page4.pdf

i know nothing of how to go after that foam man. but i'll sure be watchin yer thread. i think the sturcture of the boat comes from the foam and it's many corrigatations into the whole void between hulls, inner and outer. i don't know. i'd guess the foam inserts are glued somehow too. what did aristocraft have to say?
take pics too if ya can.
i have no insight as to yer repair, only much interest for obvious reasons....