5.7 TKS will not rev under load

the man

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2006 Mercruiser TKS 5.7l Alhpa gen 2. new long block, new plugs wires, cap rotor, base timing set according to manual: same problem as before the new block. we replaced the block because it had very low compression on one cylinder. we thought that this low compression was causing the ecu to not let the motor run at high rpm under load. but now, same symptoms:

runs great at an idle, and revs up fine with no load. it is a bit hard to start at times, as if timing was off, but once it starts it runs smoothly. but under a load, it will not rev above 18-1900. have tried everything! fuel flow is good, just will not push a load. ideas?
 

alldodge

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Re: 5.7 TKS will not rev under load

What is the serial number of the engine
 

the man

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Re: 5.7 TKS will not rev under load

OW362215
ecu 861253T02
 

the man

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Re: 5.7 TKS will not rev under load

i do not want to throw another ecm at it without some kind of verification that this is the problem. i have had several "mobile marine mechanics" (aka high dollar flunkies) look at it and no one can figure it out. the Rinda diagnostic tool apparently just reads engine hours on this system- kind of useless!
 
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the man

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Re: 5.7 TKS will not rev under load

just paid $600 for a new ecm. now it revs to 2500 (instead of 1900), will not plane. vibration enough to shake the rails at about 1200. new block, heads, cap, rotor, wires, plugs, ecm. timed to specs, vacuum check looks good, lots of fuel flow (1/2 cup in 5 seconds). anybody have ideas?
 

alldodge

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Re: 5.7 TKS will not rev under load

i do not want to throw another ecm at it without some kind of verification that this is the problem. i have had several "mobile marine mechanics" (aka high dollar flunkies) look at it and no one can figure it out. the Rind diagnostic tool apparently just reads engine hours on this system- kind of useless!

Couldn't agree more, but just plugged in your serial number and it came back as Service Literature. I did manage to find your engine looking in other areas. Lookslike it is in service manual 31. Looking through the manual I have been unable to find out if you have 1 or 2 knock sensors. If the knock sensor picks up what it thinks is a knock it will retard the timming. When timming is retarded your power goes in the toilet. Try this, look on both sides of the engine block below the exhaust manifolds. The knock sensor looks like the link below

Knock Sensor, Mercury - Mercruiser 806612T

My engine only has 1 and it is on the starboard side between the starter and the dip stick. If you have 2 the other one will be on the opisite side in the sae position. Pull the wire off of one or both if you have 2. Once these wires are removed and if you get your rpm back, you have the problem. If not let us know.
 

the man

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Re: 5.7 TKS will not rev under load

just plugged in your serial number and it came back as Service Literature. I did manage to find your engine looking in other areas. Lookslike it is in service manual 31. Looking through the manual I have been unable to find out if you have 1 or 2 knock sensors. If the knock sensor picks up what it thinks is a knock it will retard the timming. When timming is retarded your power goes in the toilet. Try this, look on both sides of the engine block below the exhaust manifolds. The knock sensor looks like the link below

Knock Sensor, Mercury - Mercruiser 806612T

My engine only has 1 and it is on the starboard side between the starter and the dip stick. If you have 2 the other one will be on the opisite side in the sae position. Pull the wire off of one or both if you have 2. Once these wires are removed and if you get your rpm back, you have the problem. If not let us know.

just tried that, no change other than a bit of knocking
 
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alldodge

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Re: 5.7 TKS will not rev under load

just tried that, no change other than a bit of knocking

Now that is not right. The knock sensor is only there to sense if the engine is knocking, and if so retard the timming. You removed the wire which disables the sensor and the is the default setting for the knock module. If the engine is not knocking and the wire is removed nothing should happen; the engine started knocking and no increase in rpm, this should not happen.

The next thing I would do if it was mine was a compression test. According to your post this is a new long block and the old engine had the same issue. Have you had your injectors tested? This is about all I have, use the term it's above my pay grade. Need an expert to come in like Fun Times
 

the man

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Re: 5.7 TKS will not rev under load

Now that is not right. The knock sensor is only there to sense if the engine is knocking, and if so retard the timming. You removed the wire which disables the sensor and the is the default setting for the knock module. If the engine is not knocking and the wire is removed nothing should happen; the engine started knocking and no increase in rpm, this should not happen.

The next thing I would do if it was mine was a compression test. According to your post this is a new long block and the old engine had the same issue. Have you had your injectors tested? This is about all I have, use the term it's above my pay grade. Need an expert to come in like Fun Times

thanks for the info. no injectors- TKS is a carburetor. compression check- yes that is how we found the problem in #5 in the old engine, because we were at this same point and were doing tests to try to find the problem. i went ahead and bought a new long block because i was tired of dealing with this and wanted to eliminate any variables there. the new block is from a very reputable, highly and frequently recommended source. i wouldn't bet my life on the compression being as it should be for a new long block but i would bet $10g's .
 

Fun Times

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Re: 5.7 TKS will not rev under load

Wow sorry to hear of your troubles.
new long block, new plugs wires, cap rotor, base timing set according to manual: same problem as before the new block. we replaced the block because it had very low compression on one cylinder. we thought that this low compression was causing the ecu to not let the motor run at high rpm under load. but now, same symptoms:
Runs great at an idle, and revs up fine with no load. it is a bit hard to start at times, as if timing was off, but once it starts it runs smoothly. but under a load, it will not rev above 18-1900. have tried everything! fuel flow is good, just will not push a load. ideas?
Well since your not afraid to spend money on finding the problem:D I would guess/start to suspect you may have a problem with either the carburetor, The ignition sensor under the distributor, the coil, ignition control module wiring harness, (Since you probably did not get a new wire harness with the new ICU ?) Or your shift cutout switch could be either going bad or just slightly misadjusted, or weak spring on the shift plate. You could also have low fuel pressure, So check the fuel pressure at the carb. Also try running an separate fuel tank bypassing the fuel tank.

i do not want to throw another ecm at it without some kind of verification that this is the problem. i have had several "mobile marine mechanics" (aka high dollar flunkies) look at it and no one can figure it out. the Rinda diagnostic tool apparently just reads engine hours on this system- kind of useless!
Yes since this is a carburetor engine, a scan tool is useless.

Now that we have most of the guessing suggestions of what could be wrong thorn out there, The first thing you should do is verify that your ignition timing advance is moving upwards on acceleration to the mid to high 20's BTDC watching it with a timing light. Then move the timing light to the coil wire and ensuring you have a constant flashing light while under load. Then move the timing light to all 8 plug wires one at a timing again looking for a constant pattern as you accelerate.

If you did not get a new wire harness with the ICU then ensure all the wire pins connectors are clean and making good contact by pushing/wiggling wires around after pulling the connector off for inspection. The harness to the ICU has been known to be bad and I believe they have stopped sending them with the new ICU's. If their still available you may need a new one.

just paid $600 for a new ecm. now it revs to 2500 (instead of 1900), will not plane. vibration enough to shake the rails at about 1200. new block, heads, cap, rotor, wires, plugs, ecm. timed to specs, vacuum check looks good, lots of fuel flow (1/2 cup in 5 seconds). anybody have ideas?
Since you "touched" the wiring harness, I would still suspect a bad connection somehow.

I have been unable to find out if you have 1 or 2 knock sensors.
Looking at his parts catalog tells us he should have just one sensor. Item number 37, http://www.mercruiserparts.com/Show...nbr=11741&bnbr=40&bdesc=Electrical+Components But bear in mind that this advice is not always 100% accurate all the time, it just helps give you an idea is all. ;):)

The next thing I would do if it was mine was a compression test. Have you had your injectors tested?
Once his timing advance is confirmed, another compression test would definitely be on my list. As already mentioned by the man this is a carbureted engine.:)

Need an expert to come in like Fun Times
I don't know about expert, One thing Don taught me was, I still have a lot to learn.:( RIP Don, you are so truly missed.

Hope this helps, Good luck.:)
 

Bt Doctur

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Re: 5.7 TKS will not rev under load

Define what you call a long block. Was a compression test done on the new motor? Was the valve adjustment checked? Was the motor "pre-oiled" before firing it up? Is the firing order correct 1,8,4,3,6,5,7,2 in a clockwise direction? If you hear knocking you have a serious problem.
If you have a carb, why are you buying the ecm ????????????
 
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the man

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Re: 5.7 TKS will not rev under load

Define what you call a long block. Was a compression test done on the new motor? Was the valve adjustment checked? Was the motor "pre-oiled" before firing it up? Is the firing order correct 1,8,4,3,6,5,7,2 in a clockwise direction? If you hear knocking you have a serious problem.
If you have a carb, why are you buying the ecm ????????????

long block: block and heads, pre-assembled by supplier. rocker arms adjusted. no i did not personally do a compression test.
yes I primed the oil pump before i installed the distributor, then cranked engine for a while before ignition
yes, firing order verified twice
i think i have been using the wrong term. what i have is an ICU. ecm, ecu, whatever, is a generic term for me i guess for any expensive chip to make the engine run. i replaced it at the "advice" of several mechanics. i did not want to buy it without 'knowing' that this was the problem.
 

the man

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Re: 5.7 TKS will not rev under load

Or your shift cutout switch could be either going bad or just slightly misadjusted, or weak spring on the shift plate.

this is a new one to me. this affects engine rpm??? how ironic if this was the problem, after all the $$$ and sweat and tears we put into this over the last few weeks, focused on the engine and its systems.

is there a resource that details this? i did not see much in the manual, although i will look again
 
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Bt Doctur

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Re: 5.7 TKS will not rev under load

shift interupter ground the ign on points and TB IV and V , or +12v to the computer. usually makes the motor stumble to aid shifting
I believe your referring to the ign module that provides the spark.Thinking its a TB V because of the knock sensor.Should be 2 modules mounted on the dist, main ign module and spark knock module
 

Bt Doctur

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Re: 5.7 TKS will not rev under load

first thing you need to do is slow down and review everything.
pull valve covers to make sure valve train is moving normally and readjust valves with cold method.
check sparkplugs for signs of plug firing,
firing order, I know. Ive wired them wrong too.
compression test, cylinder balance test, leakdown test.
 

Bt Doctur

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Re: 5.7 TKS will not rev under load

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the man

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Re: 5.7 TKS will not rev under load

shift interupter ground the ign on points and TB IV and V , or +12v to the computer. usually makes the motor stumble to aid shifting
I believe your referring to the ign module that provides the spark.Thinking its a TB V because of the knock sensor.Should be 2 modules mounted on the dist, main ign module and spark knock module

yes TB V
the modules are mounted on the port riser
 

the man

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Re: 5.7 TKS will not rev under load

first thing you need to do is slow down and review everything.
pull valve covers to make sure valve train is moving normally and readjust valves with cold method.
check sparkplugs for signs of plug firing,
firing order, I know. Ive wired them wrong too.
compression test, cylinder balance test, leakdown test.
yes, checked with inline tester. checked firing order. remember, engine runs very well at idle and revs up fine with no load. sounds really good at the dock.

good advice to slow down and review though. here is something i just found, while staring at it. it had tape on it, but i pulled the tape off. looks like a ground wire but i do not want to assume anything. in middle of picture, below left of cap.IMG_20130817_082810_677.jpg
 

Fun Times

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Re: 5.7 TKS will not rev under load

It's just an extra ground wire for the mercruiser mercathode system that your engine does not utilize. You should also have an orange and brown wire not hooked up as well.
 

the man

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Re: 5.7 TKS will not rev under load

shift interrupter switch seems fine- in gear it is right in the middle of the "v", and disconnected makes shifting very hard. dang- i was hoping that was the issue and an easy fix!
 
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