4.3L water in all 3 port cylinders

[the man]

This is a 2005 Mercruiser 4.3L TKS closed cooling. Gen 2 Alpha. I had water in all three Port cylinders, but I cannot figure it out. I have read that it could be the exhaust system somehow- BUT I also had about a cup or less of antifreeze in the pan, and some antifreeze droplets under the intake manifold. Now, I did not take the time to verify that the water in the cylinders was antifreeze, but as I remember it was.

I pulled the head, and the head gasket looks fine. And the water was in ALL THREE cylinders. It seems like if it was coming back through the exhaust, it would be raw water, not antifreeze. And how would it get in the pan? This happened at idle, with the boat on the trailer (in the lake, but still on trailer). Got loud noises that sounded like a broken rod, but it all LOOKS okay in there; engine turns over with a wrench on the crank just fine now and everything (connecting rods, push rods, valve movement) appears to be okay. Any ideas here? Thanks

 

[lcmains1]

Re: 4.3L water in all 3 port cylinders

It sounds like one of the manifold or risers is failing. Have they been replaced recently?

 

[the man]

Re: 4.3L water in all 3 port cylinders

No, not replaced. Boat has about 200 hours on everything. How can I tell if it is "failing"?

 

[railmanbnsf]

Re: 4.3L water in all 3 port cylinders

either that or cracked or warped head/heads/ intake! if the are cracked or warped they will leak water/antifreeze into the oil pan also. I've seen engines throw a rod, than to have the rod drop back in place. best way to check this is to have heads magnafluxed and check for warp. Is it an aluminum head or block?

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: 4.3L water in all 3 port cylinders

Does the closed cooling include the exhaust manifolds? If it does, an internal failure is one way an entire side would get antifreeze inside of it. What did exhaust manifold and riser look like inside when you removed them?

 

[the man]

Re: 4.3L water in all 3 port cylinders

either that or cracked or warped head/heads/ intake! if the are cracked or warped they will leak water/antifreeze into the oil pan also. I've seen engines throw a rod, than to have the rod drop back in place. best way to check this is to have heads magnafluxed and check for warp. Is it an aluminum head or block?

no aluminum. it did sound like a broken or thrown rod originally. but then i figured it must have been the hydraulic piston resistance after i got it apart and everything looks okay. as i said, the gaskets all looked good with no sign of coolant passing through.

 

[the man]

Re: 4.3L water in all 3 port cylinders

Does the closed cooling include the exhaust manifolds? If it does, an internal failure is one way an entire side would get antifreeze inside of it. What did exhaust manifold and riser look like inside when you removed them?

I will check that out today and post results

 

[the man]

Re: 4.3L water in all 3 port cylinders

Closed cooling does go through exhaust ports. On inspection they appear to be in excellent condition. We sealed the bottom hose port and filled the water cavities. Did not leak a drop; at least under that minimal pressure.

Head gasket appears to be in excellent condition, and looks the same as the other- dry- side. One rod (port forward) does appear to be slightly bent possibly from hydraulic action of piston.

I guess the next step is checking heads / block for warped. Bigger question for me is how did this happen if so; I would like to know the cause rather than just symptoms. Could it be related to a prop strike? reference: http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=468815

 

[cr2k]

Re: 4.3L water in all 3 port cylinders

Hydrolicing will force water passed the rings and in to the pan.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: 4.3L water in all 3 port cylinders

Not related to striking the prop, neither is that other threads.

Since you aren't even sure it was antifreeze in the cylinders it was more likely water. And if it was water, it is more likely reversion, than head damage. Nothing is absolute, but water in one side of a marine engine is an exhaust related issue, about 75-99% of the time.

 

[the man]

Re: 4.3L water in all 3 port cylinders

Not related to striking the prop, neither is that other threads.

Since you aren't even sure it was antifreeze in the cylinders it was more likely water. And if it was water, it is more likely reversion, than head damage. Nothing is absolute, but water in one side of a marine engine is an exhaust related issue, about 75-99% of the time.

I am starting to believe that this is the case, just from reading many posts and what I see in the engine. Nothing is cracked or warped, head gaskets were fine, etc. The thing is, the exhaust all looks fine to me also. It is such a simple system, I cannot see what I should look for or what precautions to take when I put it back together. I hate to just put it back together without finding an actual cause that I can adress. Any advice on what do look for and/or pay attention to when re-assembling?

 

[the man]

Re: 4.3L water in all 3 port cylinders

so- got this back together. Ran great (for a while). Never found any problem anywhere. Ran it for about 5 hours. Then- engine alarm went off. temperature and oil pressure were fine. Shut it off, took a look at the engine- no visible problems, nothing too hot, lots of oil. Tried to start it back up and - that's right- hydro lock! Pulled the port forward spark plug: water in cylinder. I am ready to use this POS engine for an anchor. Any ideas here? Please!! What do I look for in the exhaust if it is an exhaust problem? I have worn the manual out trying to figure this out, had the engine and exhaust completely apart, ... I am at a loss.

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: 4.3L water in all 3 port cylinders

may have to replace the manifolds and risers.7 year old risers I think need replacing.

 

[the man]

Re: 4.3L water in all 3 port cylinders

edited

 

[oops!]

Re: 4.3L water in all 3 port cylinders

manifolds can rust.

the inner sections of the water jacket will eventually go and cannot be repaired.

remove the manifold, and pressure test it. it is the only way to to know for sure.

i agree with the statement that 99% of individual side water intrusion is manifold related. so im sure the guys have you on the right track.

 

[the man]

Re: 4.3L water in all 3 port cylinders

thank you. will post results for others in same situation.

 

[the man]

Re: 4.3L water in all 3 port cylinders

Problem found, but certainly not solved yet. This is a 2005 Trophy 2052. With myself (175 pounds) and a friend (185 pounds) in the stern, we measure the waterline is just 7 inches from the top of the risers. With the riser off, I can reach down the exhaust and feel the water there. When we rock the boat, you can feel the water level going up and down.

The first time this happened, I had started the boat on the trailer with the stern low. The riser level would have been below water level. The second time, the boat was loaded, and there were swells. The water level would have been surging above the top of the risers.

I have worn the manual out looking for the proverbial 'flapper valves'; they do not seem to exist. The exhaust just goes out the trasnscom assembly.

What a f*****d up design!!!! I am beside myself with the lack of foresight that went into this system. Others beware.

any ideas on how to retrofit this are appreciated.

 

[oops!]

Re: 4.3L water in all 3 port cylinders

your exhaust flappers are shot.

in the y pipe...is a back flush flapper or shutter. this prevents major amounts of water from back flushing into the manifold wnen a wave hits the stern.

about 45 buxs and 10 minits

 

[the man]

Re: 4.3L water in all 3 port cylinders

your exhaust flappers are shot.

in the y pipe...is a back flush flapper or shutter. this prevents major amounts of water from back flushing into the manifold wnen a wave hits the stern.

about 45 buxs and 10 minits

might anyone have a diagram of this? my manual does not seem to cover it. engine ser #OW311876 outdrive OW562120

 

[MSRTBUDWISER]

Re: 4.3L water in all 3 port cylinders

may have to replace the manifolds and risers.7 year old risers I think need replacing.

The risers should not need to be replaced unless they are damaged or they have failed. As long as the engine is flushed properly after use in saltwater they should last as long as the motor.