1987 Four Winns 190 Horizon resto....maybe, possibly

[CaptNewbie]

Well, the nice guys over on the engine forum, along with the Admiral convinced me that this is a lost cause. Then on Mad Props recommendations I hopped over here to the "where there's a will there's a way" restoration side of the forums and have since done some reading. You guys are absolutely amazing.

After reading and still waiting on the conclusion of chevymaher's FW resto and halfway through Woodonglass's Blue Flamingo I really, really, really think I want to go against the Admirals orders and tear into this Horizon.

A little background. The boat has set for about 3 years with the cover off, the last time she felt water on her hull was somewhere around the early 2000's. She belonged to my mother in law who isn't known for taking real good care of things.

The Admiral isn't into boating, unless said boat has peddles. Her motor boating experiences have pretty much been sitting in the middle of the lake waiting to be towed in, so that's going to be an extremely tough nut to crack and I'm open to any suggestions as to how to go about convincing her that this idea isn't going to be a complete and utter money pit, which I'm sure it will but she doesn't need to know that right now.
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And of course here's the dirty boat porn.

 

[tpenfield]

Looks 'soup-to-nuts' restoration. Is the engine seized? Looks like a complete cut 'n gut, new upholstery, maybe an engine rebuild, and who knows what on the outdrive (although it is the best looking part of the boat so far )

 

[briangcc]

Looks like a good restore candidate to me. The merc outdrive is definitely a plus.

 

[Mad Props]

Oh man... now i feel responsible for the outcome lol..

As far as the wife goes, I only have 9 years of marriage under my belt, but one thing I learned pretty quick, is most Admirals have a hard time seeing the finished product. I bet if you get some elbow grease and a shop vac in that thing, even that will give her a little vote of confidence.

My biggest recommendation is be patient and realistic. Don't go getting excited and buying 30 gallons of resin, gelcoat, and fiberglass... Take it small steps at a time. If anything, you'll break up the big bills, plus resin is only good for a year and the last thing you wanna do is throw away money.

Good luck!

 

[CaptNewbie]

Looks 'soup-to-nuts' restoration. Is the engine seized? Looks like a complete cut 'n gut, new upholstery, maybe an engine rebuild, and who knows what on the outdrive (although it is the best looking part of the boat so far )

Definitely a soup to nuts. The engine is seized, which was the reason for being on the dark side *cough* I mean engine forum. I originally was thinking all it needed was interior, deck and engine work, silly me for thinking anything could be that simple, then someone rained all over my parade lol

Mad Props no hard feelings, it can only get better from here right?...right? Lol I will definitely be patient, it's one of my only virtues and I doubt at this point in it the Admiral will OK any spending. She has an extremely difficult time seeing finished product. I'll have to see what I can accomplish with some elbow grease and wax and a shop vac. She was free minus title transfer fees and I hate to see her go to a landfill or the bottom of the lake.

 

[tpenfield]

All of the iBoat forums are good places to be, so no worries about how you get to the resto forum.

 

[chevymaher]

As Arnold said. "Just Do It"

 

[CaptNewbie]

My dad always says there are no stupid questions even though I've heard quite a few that would contradict his theory. Anyway, here goes. The hull seems to be tri-colored, or is it my eyes? The greyish? Bluish? color on top which looks like its oxidized on the bottom then the grey under that and white on the rest. If the top strip is oxidized then why isn't the strip directly below it also? Am I crazy or missing something?

 

[chevymaher]

Looks all the same color to me. Top was where a tarp covered for years. Then severe oxidation on down. Hit it with a scrub pad the worst faded will turn a different color. Looks like someone just scrubbed the side is all.

 

[CaptNewbie]

Thanks chev, that's kinda what I was thinking but the shiny top grey and the other grey just looked a tad different. Gonna see if I can get the outside spit shined and think up a way to get the engine out. I've got a super well built pergola I took down I'm thinking of using some of to build a gantry.


My MIL told me a few years back that the last time she took it out her ol'man, who drinks quite a bit and is one of the most impatient people I've ever met, had slammed it from reverse to forward or vice versa and broke something. I don't know if he actually broke something or if he just wasn't into taking it out that day, I'd imagine if it hurt something they'd have had a heck of a time getting it back on the trailer and she didn't mention anything about that. Anyone have any idea what would've broke? The shift cables seem to be operable and their doing something back in the engine/drive area.
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[Woodonglass]

Thanks for taking a look at the BF Project. My Admiral sounds like yours. But...My motor is running good now so I hope to change her attitude. MAKE SURE your boat is in Excellent Running condition prior to allowing the Admiral on Board!!!!!!!

Good news is that Four Winns makes a nice hull. Bad news is This one appears to have been Rode Hard and put away wet!!! If you like the looks of the boat, and the size and configuration of it suits your boating needs, it IS a doable project. Heck ANY fiberglass boat can be restored. Just depends on the thickness of your wallet. IMHO, with a seized motor, suspect Outdrive and a full Gut and restore being required, I'd guesstimate your budget should be in the 6-8K range. BUT...a NEW 19' Four Winns is about 35-40K. If you're patient, follow the advice given here on the forum, and work on the boat a minimum of 2 hours every day, you should have a LIKE NEW boat with vintage styling, ready to hit the water next year. Be aware, LIFE always seems to get in the way, soooo If I were advising your Admiral, I'd say don't be disappointed if the boat isn't on the water for 2-3 years. These things always take longer than you think.

We'll be here to help with ALL aspects for the duration.

I'm FOR SURE not the I/O expert but...Cone Clutches and Dog Clutches are the norm for Outdrives. They CAN be damaged by incorrect shifting. That's ALL I know!!!!

 

[CaptNewbie]

Your welcome WOG, thank you for sharing your experiences and wisdom. I'm to splash #2 on your BF thread and plan on finishing it. She sure is a beautiful boat, and you did an amazing job.

mine was definitely road hard an put away wet, as is everything that my MIL has had it seems. She's in extremely poor health and we've been trying to wade through all the junk and what not that she's accumulated over the years.

In addition to the boat there's a maybe 70's Harley golf cart that's seen better days that I'm debating on what to do with, a channel front house that's seen better days and was a 68 Plymouth Fury III convertible that set untouched in the garage for at least 10 years. I told the admiral we were keeping at least 2 but it looks like I'm going to be fighting just to keep the boat lol

I would imagine the couple year mark would probably be the most logical goal to set as we've got plenty of life stuff going on. I'm excited to start peeling the rot away though.

 

[CaptNewbie]

Well, life is happening and I haven't had a chance to do anything with disassembly. We've been patiently, and I use patiently very lightly, waiting for the loan underwriter for our new house to be satisfied and finally got the clear to close the other day. If you ever have s chance to do any dealings with Union Pacific Financial just pass. They've taken what should be an amazing first time home buy and turned it into a few month long nightmare.

On a good note tho, Monday at 3:30 we will be closing on the house and moving to the birthplace of the first man on the moon. Now I just have to get my butt in gear and convince the Admiral we need a gutted boat inn the back yard of our new house. Wish me luck

 

[briangcc]

Congrats on the house! I know how you feel in regards to dealing with banks. I almost pulled out of our deal but at the insistence of my admiral I turned everything over to our attorney to handle. My stress went WAY down after that.

As for the admiral...can't offer much advice as I'm at 7yrs this year (or is it 6....ducking and watching for frying pans!). Anywho...IF you have photoshop skills take a good side shot of what it looks like now and then clean it up to show the difference. Could also add improvements if needed and this *might* turn her to your side. Such as ditching the front railing - dates the boat. Dunno...worth a shot??

OR....take a different approach...better to ask for forgiveness than permission. Your mileage may vary greatly on this one.

 

[CaptNewbie]

Thanks brian. It's definitely been a roller coaster, the underwriter kept being nit picky with everything, so much so we had to ask for a closing extension from the sellers and still won't be closing till 3 days after the extension is up.

​​​​ As for the Admiral I think I'm going to try the ol "we can't just leave it where it's at and ain't nobody gonna buy it in the condition it's in and we'd have to pay to hull it to the dump" wish me luck.

 

[CaptNewbie]

Well that approach didn't work but I think I've pretty much got an I suppose. 50 no's and a yes means yes lol. Just pondering and planning, should I wait to demo till after the move or do you guys think it'd be sturdy enough on the trailer to move it 18 miles? I am going to try to get the engine and drive off before hand just so I'm not rednecking the new back yard with a throwed together gantry, gotta tread lightly.

 

[chevymaher]

If you got a bunk style trailer it be fine moving it. I was walking in mine like a herd of elephants.

I will admit I was right on the blueprinting portion of the program. Getting under it with a laser pointer and making braces to straighten the hull in the appropriate spots. So once the stringers went back in it sealed the deal.

 

[Woodonglass]

I agree, bunk trailer and some nylon straps and she'll travel fine.

 

[CaptNewbie]

Thank chev and wood. I guess I should've specified she's on a roller trailer. I'm not sure I like the roller style, seems like you'd have to be a bit more precise at trailering to get the rollers lined up with the hull just right. I've read a few threads about converting from rollers to bunks but nothing showing exactly how. I think I'll check into that more.

 

[Woodonglass]

I'm with you!!! I really dislike roller trailers. I've seen a LOT of problems to the hull due to these things Converting a Roller to a bunk is NOT that hard.