1978 Johnson 70HP head scratcher

billythegrape

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jun 5, 2021
Messages
35
Hi, here from Knoxville, TN.

I am at a loss and need help. I have a 24' pontoon boat. I had a 50hp johnson on there that worked perfectly. However, it was a short shaft and kept coming out of the water, so I decided to see if someone would trade for a long shaft. I got the 78 as an equal trade; tested compression and it was good so I took it home and put it on.

The engine ran like a top. It felt like it was twice as fast and we got to the island we go to in Norris Lake in record time. On the way back it started acting up, lost tons of power and was generally running like crap. I had noticed that the stator and rectifier showed signs of melting, so when I got home I ordered them.

Put the new stator and rectifier on and then set timing (WOT, all plugs out, spark tester and timing light lead on cyl 1) to 15 deg as this was 2 deg less than 17. Decided to rebuild the carbs and change all the fuel lines and pump; got that done, carbs were very clean, but had old gaskets. Tried it on the muffs, it was hard to start but got going and was ok, so I brought it to the lake. It ran badly with no power and died at the ramp. Pulled the plugs, found water on them.

Pulled the head, it was very corroded, but the cylinders looked good and the head and water jacket were straight. Replaced the head gasket, water jacket gasket, melted pressure relief valves and grommets, and the thermostat and associated gaskets. Cleaned everything. Boat ran ok on the muffs, so I brought it down to the lake and it died on the ramp. Got it going and pulled plug wires; #3 cyl was not contributing so I figured the coil was dead. It was melted.

Replaced all the coils and decided to do the exhaust manifold gaskets as well because I read that those should be changed at some point; since the head was so nasty I figured it must be to. It was. Cleaned everything on it, replaced all gaskets. Took it to the lake today. It fired right up, but had no power. Drove it for a bit, pulled the cover off the carbs, saw that the chokes were all shut. Adjusted the chokes to their proper positions, it ran better with more power but still not fabulously.

I am at a loss. What else can I check? The plug wires? I messed with them while going around on the boat and they shocked the crap out of me; they don't seem like they fit super well into the coils. The engine feels like it is being held back by something. Compression is still fine at 120-120-115. HELP!!
 

oldboat1

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Apr 3, 2002
Messages
9,612
dang. That's a lot of heat. Did you change out the impeller, and are you monitoring operating temperature? (top of the head -- too hot to touch is too hot to run).

I would pull off the head again and resurface it -- wet/dry paper on a flat surface. Figure 8s until equal shine all around.
 

billythegrape

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jun 5, 2021
Messages
35
dang. That's a lot of heat. Did you change out the impeller, and are you monitoring operating temperature? (top of the head -- too hot to touch is too hot to run).

I would pull off the head again and resurface it -- wet/dry paper on a flat surface. Figure 8s until equal shine all around.
I did resurface it, down to 2000 grit. Engine is never too hot to touch. Checked the head and water jacket with a straight edge, you couldn't fit a hair underneath.
 

billythegrape

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jun 5, 2021
Messages
35
Today's diagnostic session was weird. I wanted to set the timing back to where it was initially but when I had the light hooked to cyl 1 I couldn't see the timing marks while cranking. When I found them, they were 90 degrees away!

I figured it might be getting cross voltage with the second wire, so I moved it completely away from the second coil. Same thing. I disconnected and reconnected it, then was disappointed to see that I could not get my spark tester or a plug to fire on the #1 cyl. When I tried to check for 12V at the power pack on the orange lead while cranking, it shocked me. The other coils fired just fine.

After fiddling for a bit, it started working again. I set the timing back to 13 deg, and put new ends on the spark plug wires where they connect to the plugs. It ran great on the muffs. Took to the lake, it wouldn't even start. Pulled it back out, looked it over, put it back in, it started up and ran, but no power.

Now I am wondering about two things. Could the timing base be messed up somehow? Or are the reeds messed up? It was blowing a lot of fuel out of the exhaust at the lake.
 

racerone

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
37,849
Well ----12 volts from the battery is not used to make spark on this engine.
 

billythegrape

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jun 5, 2021
Messages
35
Well ----12 volts from the battery is not used to make spark on this engine.
Well hey man, didn't know you were on here too!

That would have been helpful information, haha. After it shocked me I figured as much. Can the timing base move and cause symptoms like the ones I described?
 

billythegrape

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jun 5, 2021
Messages
35
Going to check the reeds when I get the chance, and going to pull the flywheel and look at the timing base. I am missing something simple here, I just know it.
 

ct1762@gmail.com

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
859
reeds , if out of spec or bent, will spit fuel out backwards. you need a DVA adapter for multimeter to figure out if its the timer base, charge coil or pack. do you have the factory manual?
 

billythegrape

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jun 5, 2021
Messages
35
reeds , if out of spec or bent, will spit fuel out backwards. you need a DVA adapter for multimeter to figure out if its the timer base, charge coil or pack. do you have the factory manual?
Yes I have the factory manual; finally found a copy for free yesterday. I read about the DVA yesterday as well, going to give the timer base a visual inspection first just to see if something obvious is wrong. It was pouring yesterday so the boat stayed covered up. Is it true you can't buy that timer base anymore?
 

ct1762@gmail.com

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
859
ah well the timer base new is NLA yes, but quite a few new old stock ones on ebay, or just order a new CDI unit. all the same.
 

racerone

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
37,849
That all looks very nice.----Looks like stator has been replaced already.
 

racerone

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
37,849
What was wrong with the old stator ??----Or just replaced it as a " lets try it " move.
 

billythegrape

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jun 5, 2021
Messages
35
It had melted all over the block. Same with the rectifier. I had the same thing with the same symptoms happen to my 50hp johnson and it fixed it right up.
 
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