1975 25 hp evinrude

7173george

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Messages
46
Finally got to take my boat out today. it's a 1448 welded jon. 20" transom with a long shaft 25 hp. when i am going down the lake at full throttle there is a lot of spay coming up the transome and into the boat.I trimmed the motor all the way out,meaning the 4th hole away fom the boat, but still lots of spray coming up the transom and into the boat. what do i do about this. i have never had this happen on my other boats. i moved the motor to each of the 4 trim holes, the closer it is to the boat the more it comes in. the only weight in the back is the fuel tank. I'm stumped.
 

kfa4303

Banned
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
6,094
Re: 1975 25 hp evinrude

Hi 7173georoge. Where is your cavitation plate in relation to the bottom of the boat? It should be level, or even 1"-1 1/2" above the keel. It sounds like you've tried all the various trim/tilt positions without much benefit, so that doesn't sound like the culprit. It may just be an unfortunate combination of the transom shape and engine spray/exhaust pattern, in which case you may need to put some sort of splash guard up. I haven't had that particular problem, but I did see a vid on youtube the other day in which a jonboat with a little 8 hp on it threw up an odd rooster tail spray pattern for no apparent reason. It seemed to be primarily due to the shape/angle of the transom on the boat, but that's just a guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jk-GNEvJac

Check out the 1:00 mark to see the "rooster tail effect" I was referring to.
 

7173george

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Messages
46
Re: 1975 25 hp evinrude

my cav. plate is 3 inches below the bottom of the boat. is this what is causing this?
 

kfa4303

Banned
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
6,094
Re: 1975 25 hp evinrude

It may well be. With the cavitation plate that low it's creating an awful lot of drag, which is robbing you of speed and also altering the handling and exhaust discharge. It sound's like you'll need to either get a jack plate of some sort, build up the transom, or convert your motor to a short shaft. While you don't have to get the cavitation plate the full 1-1/2" above the keel, the closer you can get the better. You can probably gain at least some height by raising the motor up on the transom. There's no rule that says that the motor has to rest on the transom itself, so long as it is sufficiently attached by clamping it strongly and adding a security chain. That will probably only get you an inch, or so, but it's a start. Beyond that you'll have to get clever. While you can certainly buy a fancy-schmany jack plate, if you do a search here in the forums you'll find lots of clever DIY solutions people have come up with too. In fact, you can probably get a local metal fabricator to make one for you using a couple pieces of heavy gauge aluminum angle that looks something like this, for less than you might think.


jack-plate-fixed.jpg (fixed jack plate)



adjustable kicker motor mount.jpg (adjustable jack plate)
 

7173george

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Messages
46
Re: 1975 25 hp evinrude

Thanks.I am an aluminium welder, and i have a 3" jack plate i made for another boat.I will give it a try and see if this solves the problem.may be able to give it a try friday morning.
 

boobie

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Messages
20,826
Re: 1975 25 hp evinrude

Some how raise the mtr up. It's to low.
 

kfa4303

Banned
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
6,094
Re: 1975 25 hp evinrude

Thanks.I am an aluminium welder, and i have a 3" jack plate i made for another boat.I will give it a try and see if this solves the problem.may be able to give it a try friday morning.


Well that's convenient :) Post some pics of your work and I bet you'll get some commissions here in the forums. We're always looking for aluminum pros. Try to get the plate to hold your motor such that the cavitation plate (directly above the prop) is level, or slightly higher (1"-2") than the bottom of the boat. Also, be sure to use Stainless Steel hardware, and dip any through hull fasteners in 3M 5200. Good luck. We'd love to see pics of your work when you got it all figured out. Cheers!
 

ewalden444

Seaman
Joined
Aug 18, 2005
Messages
63
Re: 1975 25 hp evinrude

Hello,

It sounds like to me, you need a short shaft motor, and not a long shaft. I could be wrong?? If you could post a picture of your motor on the boat.

Thanks
 

7173george

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Messages
46
Re: 1975 25 hp evinrude

it was a short shaft,it was cavitating,so i got the parts and converted it to a long shaft. now it flies down the lake but has the spray issue. water pours into the back of the boat. i made a 3" jack plate,now the cav. plate is dead level with the bottom of the boat. I'm going to take her out for a test run tommarow afternoon. and see what happens.
 

kfa4303

Banned
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
6,094
Re: 1975 25 hp evinrude

awesome. I'd love to see a pic of what you came with after the sea trials. Good luck!
 

7173george

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Messages
46
Re: 1975 25 hp evinrude

will the boat get on plane faster with the cavitation plate up where it should be? it gets on plane at full throttle,then i back off to around 3/4 and it stays on plane.I try to take it easy on this motor, it's very easy to start and runs smooth,i hope it will last me a few more seasons.I don't like the new four strokes. they cost a lot and seem really heavy.
 

kfa4303

Banned
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
6,094
Re: 1975 25 hp evinrude

Your ability to increase your "hole shot" (i.e. ability to go from a dead stop to on plane quickly) will mostly be determined by a combination of weight distribution, prop pitch, and tilt/trim. Generally speaking, boats with remotely adjustable trim tabs on them start with them all the way down in the water upon take off to help get the boat on plane quickly, they then trim the tabs (flatten) them out to cruise around. Of course, you can't really do this with you motor and trim tabs would probably cost more than the boat, so you'll have to do some experimenting with the position at which you tilt the motor. The position that's best for hole shot may not be best for cruising and vise versa. Of course, your boat will handle very differently based on the amount of people and gear you have at any given time, so don't be surprised if what works well while your alone is different from when you have a friend or two with you. Even moving your own body weight around can have a big effect on a small boat. Here's a pic of a PVC tiller extension I made for my '66 20 hp. It works great!!! It has allowed me to move several inches forward in the boat upon take off, which has greatly increased my ability to get on plane quickly. Once I'm up on plane, I back off of the throttle to about 3/4 and sit on my rear chair like normal and cruise along nicely at around 20 mph. The extension also allows me to stand up on the back bench and still pilot the boat while being able to see easily over the bow to watch out for any obstacles. I can also steer the boat with the slightest input too. Just a few inches of travel with the tiller extension and the boat turns smoothly and with virtually no effort. It was a bit of a bare before using the stock tiller. Best of all it only cost about $2!!!

tiller.jpg (1 1/4" thin walled PVC tiller extension)


shadow 1.jpg (pic of me using it. you can see it in the shadow. the pic is taken on my cell phone while standing on the back bench at low speed/idle.)
 

7173george

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Messages
46
Re: 1975 25 hp evinrude

Thanks, I've learned so much from this site.That motor looks amazing for it's age.Today i'm taking my camera. i will try to put up a few pics.
 

7173george

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Messages
46
Re: 1975 25 hp evinrude

test run was a total failure. when the boat starts to get on plane there is cavitation. took the 3" jack plate off. going to try it with a 1" .
had my camera on the bench seat next to me slid off and fell into the water on the floor. i hope i can find the right sweet spot or i may have to part with this old motor and look for and newer one. this motor should work? boat goes 21 mph on my gps. with out jack plate but there is so much water coming in,had to go back to the doc and put it on the trailor and pull the drain plug.
 

Jeep Man

Commander
Joined
Oct 17, 2008
Messages
2,803
Re: 1975 25 hp evinrude

Sweet spot will likely between 1"-2" lower. Just adjust on the mounting holes on the boat. Did the same with my camera. I got lucky. Took the batteries out and stored it in a heated dry place. Took more than a week to dry out completely.
 

kfa4303

Banned
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
6,094
Re: 1975 25 hp evinrude

Hello again George. Sorry to hear about the troubles, but hang in there. It sounds like the motor itself is running fine. Here's a diagram that explains the best way to mount your motor. I also found a pic of a funky home made jack plate, made from an old Johnson transom clamp and an aluminum box. I'm not sure how well it works, but it looks pretty clever. Stick with it you're almost there.



homemade jack plate2.jpghommade jack plate1.jpgmotor height on transom.jpg
 

7173george

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Messages
46
Re: 1975 25 hp evinrude

I did someting similar.I put a 1" by 2" piece of aluminium tube under the clamp.If this doesn't work at 1" I will need to weld a 2" spacer together because the clamps will be off the transome.I tried to post some pics but it says the file is to large.What do i need to do?
 

rscottmeyer

Cadet
Joined
Nov 26, 2010
Messages
8
Re: 1975 25 hp evinrude

I have seen this before, and I MAY know what the problem is.

First off, your rude has the older style lower unit, and they are designed to run buried deeper in the water with one of the water intakes being above the cavitation plate, the other (main intake) being on the leading edge of the exhaust snoot, and a cone prop (not through hub exhaust).

What can happen on some aluminum boats is that the keel runner does not have a flat edge at the end, and so as they run through the water, they pull a narrow stream of water up at the angle of the end of the runner (much like the angled leading edge of the tunnel on a tunnel flats boat draws water up into the tunnel). So, you can end up with a thin stream of water being drafted up right at the end of the transom hitting your motor's leg at a high point causing all the spray. But, that stream is too narrow for a prop to get a good bite if you just raise the motor to try to get it out of the stream. That is why I imagine you had all the cavitation when you raised the motor initially. (Too, almost any propeller you can buy for the older style lower units without through hub exhaust will come with no cupping, so you probably can't overcome that by buying another prop.)

I have gotten lucky with a couple of boats with that problem by using filler (like bondo) to build up a small delta pad on the bottom at the keel / transom so that there is not a graduated angle at the end of the runner, but rather a sharp 90deg angle which won't lift the water up on the leg as it runs through the water.

You do not need to run THAT motor with the cavitation plate at or higher than the bottom plane of the boat due to the design of the lower unit. (BTW- I agree that a cavitation plate even or slightly higher-than-bottom running height would be correct with motors, even in the 25 hp range, with modern through hub exhaust and water intakes on the sides of the lower unit between the bullet and the cavitation plate.)
 

7173george

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Messages
46
Re: 1975 25 hp evinrude

Thanks, might be better off trying to find a newer two stroke with through hub exhuast.Just my luck,I always seem to run into these kind of problems.
 

rscottmeyer

Cadet
Joined
Nov 26, 2010
Messages
8
Re: 1975 25 hp evinrude

Not yet! Those are good motors! And, a new motor with through hub exhaust may not solve the problem... they can be run higher on a transom, but if you look closely, there is less room between the cavitation plate and the widening of the midsection on newer motors, too. I think you have a hull issue that is easy to solve.

I was trying to remember last night what I used on a B-52 Riverhawk that I still have which had the same problem, and it was a roll of marine putty epoxy from Ace like this:
http://www.acetogo.com/product/epoxy-pc-marine-2oz.html

It comes in a roll, you break off a section, and because there are two layered parts, you roll it around in your hands like play-doh until it becomes one color. At that point, it is catalyzed and will become hard like bondo in maybe 20 or 30 minutes. IF you have a keel runner that looks like it may be drafting water up high on the leg off the bottom of the transom, roughen up the last 1/2 foot or so of the runner, mix up some of this putty, and mold it to the end of the keel to make a runner which does not rise as it meets the transom. In fact, flatten out the ending so that there is not tendency to lift water at all.

If this doesn't work or work enough, then you can add more putty to each side of your newly modified runner in a slowly sloping triangular shape (narrow toward front of boat, wide at transom) creating a delta pad. That will widen the newly cleaned up water flow off the transom while the boat is on plane.

That River Hawk had a runner which was only about an inch wide (it is actually a fiberglass boat), and the dry tube it created in the water flow off the transom was collapsing right before the leg on the outboard creating a ton of spray at 10-15 mph. Widening that slot with a delta pad about 6" wide kept that anomaly from occurring, and all the spray all went away, and without changing the motor height, I might add. (Actually, I am a motor height freak, but believe me, the older style OMC motors are much less sensitive to height, and the propellers can't handle getting close to the surface. Raising your motor 3" would probably get you 1/4 to 1/2 mph and make it tend to blow out all the time. Also, your water intake, even the main water intake behind the propeller, could be trying to suck in foamy confused water!)

2 more things... 1) That spray was happening with a 1964 Johnson 9 1/2 (old style gearcase like yours) AND a 1978 Johnson 15 (new style gear case). If there is a hull issue sucking water up on your leg, it can happen on BOTH styles of lower unit. 2) I took pictures of how the water flowed off the transom by hanging a camera (I think my cell phone actually... this was a few years back) over the back while on plane. Those pictures are what told me what was really happening and how to correct it on that boat. Just raising it on the transom would not have fixed it at all.

The total fix (minus cure time for the putty) took about 15 or 20 minutes. I have hours and hours on plane over 20 mph on that boat, and there has been no tendency for that goofy little pad to crack, separate, or do anything else bad, even though its thickness is huge relative to what you would normally use it for.
 
Top