1975 115 Evinrude crazy hard to cold start this old girl

[jammer777]

hey everyone! ive got this 75 evinrude, that i have just bought from a friend, and it was sitting for about 2 season before i got my hands on it, the boat had an idling issue which i have resolved with rebuilding the carbs, and gave it a good once over with new plugs, let oil, drained the old gas, compression is good etc etc

So basically the issue i have is cold starts, it can take me about 20 minutes of cranking, primer bulbing, fooling around and it finally gets going, USUALLY only if i keep the throttle plates open manually with my hands until it warms up, and will idle fine on its own, I also get a heck of a smoke show as the motor fires out a ton of smoke until it warms up, after that, for the entire day, the boat will run perfect, pulls hard, starts on the first click of the key, simply perfect, doesnt seem to matter if its off for an hour or two, fires right up!

so i keep thinking that im initially flooding the engine with the smoke show that happens after starting and the fact i have to hold the throttle plates on the carb open manually, but im not really sure, looking for some advice and experiences any of you might have

So far i have tried the following and it doesn't seem to make a lick of difference
(from the top secret files) and or manual

Priming bulb till hard
Not Priming bulb at all
batteries fully charged, tried 3 different batteries
Advancing the timing with the fast idle lever, or not advancing, doesn't seem to make a difference
Manual choke on side of engine set to on / off / auto
choke solenoid switch on for 10 seconds(my boat you don't push the key in, there's a toggle switch)
Engine tilted out of the water partially or straight vertical
pulled the plugs, there seems to be a small amount of wet oil/gas mix on them, not a lot but ever so slightly, not a lot of heavy oil,

I cant really tell if im flooding the damn thing of if its getting enough gas at all, its just all confusing to me! if anyone out theres run into anything similar id love to hear from ya

 

[emdsapmgr]

That engine is a bear to start if the choke is not functioning properly. Make sure the choke is being activated when you have the key switch "on" and you have the control box choke switch lever in the "up" position. Also, if the solenoid is working, make sure it is adjusted properly so that it completely closes the choke plates on both carbs. (it's an adjustment thing.)

 

[jammer777]

hey thanks Emdsapmgr! i appreciate the response and sorry for the delay in getting back to you ive been out of data and internet range for the last few days which has actually been quite nice!

So i did take front cover off the carb and watch what was happening when the boat was attempting to be started, found some very interesting things, i found that with no priming of the bulb and the choke plates open the boat started within a minute of cranking. which is of course not how it should be working

even more interesting i saw my mixed boat gas running out the front of the open throttle plates down the front of the carbs, streaming actually, while the engine was being cranked, which i would guess meant i did a pretty crappy job installing the new float and needle valve or frost plugs (whatever those silver plugs are you have to hammer out) when i did my carb rebuild. and the reason it was streaming was the engine was tilted slightly for starting. so i guess ive kinda got to the bottom of this issue sort of, in that i figure i have been flooding the hell out of my engine via the upper carb,

anyone know where that fuel is likely coming from? ive probably mangled the float assembly or set it wrong or something haven't i ? however even with all that fuel leaking at startup she ran like a dream for 3 hours after that for the rest of the day!

 

[emdsapmgr]

Back to the original question- was the choke functioning as designed? Does it activate when the choke lever is raised? Sounds like you need to get back into the carbs.

 

[jammer777]

hey thanks again for getting back to me, for sure, it absolutely was, when i raise the lever on the side of the engine, it works as it should and the switch i have on the throttle unit (equivalent to most people pushing the key in) activates the choke solenoid!

 

[emdsapmgr]

Think I'd be pulling the leaking carb apart for an inspection of the float/ needle and seat settings. Is the float installed correctly? The core plugs inside the carbs need to be sealed during reassembly if they were replaced. They were sealed from the factory.

 

[Cap'nHandy]

Yup. ^^^ What he said. Your flooding it most likely. Needle is not seating, and your getting too much fuel. When the float is in the almost completely up position, the needle should be seated so as not to allow ANY fuel flow. And when the bowl starts to empty, it should start to allow fuel to flow.
Pull the carbs, adjust the floats and needles again, and betcha its only kinda hard to start cold, typical of most of these old evinrude crossflows.

On my 74 V4, I give my bulb a few squeezes till I feel it fill the bulb, then the bulb gets much harder. Stop. Pull choke out. Hit the starter and push in to choke. after a few seconds, it catches and lights up. Then set it to fast(er) idle. Walk to back and take off choke. Entire rest of day, its a touch of the key and it lights the fire in a split second.

If I need it to light off immediately, ( solo launch ) I give it a very small wiff ( 1/4 second poof ) of starting fluid just before I back down the ramp. That will cause it will light almost immediately. Some people will point out that there is no lube in starting fluid, but there is always plenty left over oil judging from the smoke of startup on the old gal. And I dont run it on the fluid, it saves cranking for sometimes 10-15 seconds vs 1. i am talking about a 1/4 second poof, not 3 - 5 seconds of spray. As soon as its running, its pulling fuel/oil in, and running with lube. I don't feel it's much different that the wear from 10 - 20 seconds of cranking when cold, and not having been run a couple weeks. I have gotten into the habit of running it on the muffs for several minutes if it has set for more than a week before I go to the lake. Less chance of bad surprises, and easy starting.

Ethanol polluted gas goes bad fast, looses volatiity fast, and is harder to light. The initial tiny poof solves the volatility problem. After that, the engine is warm, and it has no issues at all. I avoid it most of the time - but when time is of the essence, and your doing a solo launch and have to be fast, it makes it super easy. Cheap trade off vs. 8K for a new motor.


Blaine

 

[jammer777]

Awesome! thanks Cap'n! im going to seal up the welch plugs tonight, adjust the float some more and put her all back together tomorrow morning at the lake and get her back in the water and test it out, ill post an update here to let you guys know how i made out, sounds like our engines run sorta similarly, once i get her started initially i am good for the rest of the day, runs like a dream!

thanks again all, ill post an update when i get this thing running here or blow myself up on the water!!

 

[D.spencer]

I was wondering if this issue got resolved as I experience hard starting cold too. It will bust off good the rest of day from the first cold start with the choke. I found something on mine that may be causing this issue but I will have to get it back together to find out if I am right.

 

[Cap'nHandy]

methinks it is inherent in the design. When I was a younger man, My dad had one, and it seemed to be cold nature'd. And that was new back then.

I think the issue is fuel delivery during the initial start. Once started, its easy the rest of the day. The fact that you can give a tiny wiff of starting spray and it will kick off about as quick as it gets from the air box to the cylinders, tells me its not getting fuel ( or the correct mixture ) during the initial cranking till it fires off.
Once the thing starts hitting, it clears up and runs fine. Once started for the day, I can come back a couple hours later, and it may take a second of cranking. Usually, if less than a couple hours, just a fraction of a second. I can go out the next morning, after leaving it overnight, pull choke, and it takes only a few seconds
if I tilt the motor up, and the bowls drain. then the next day, I have to pump till firm, choke, and back to the crank-a-while routine.

Blaine

 

[canuckmark]

There are many threads here regarding hard starting of 70s Johnsons and Evinrudes. Mine is a 1977 85hp Johnson and all of last season was pure frustration (forever or no start at launch, but after that perfect starts all day if not left off for more than 30 minutes).

The one piece of advice I modified a bit from what I read here was not to pull the start lever ALL the way up - that was flooding it for my system. I found a perfect midway point that got me running on the first to third try every time. Also Shell Gold exclusively (no ethanol in that gas up here in Canada). Otherwise: clean plugs, tight choke plates, good solid high RPM spin from the starter (aka good battery, good starter and bendix, people forget that piece).

 

[racerone]

You could look into a newer electric primer valve as used on these motors from about 1980 and up.-------If motor is in good condition you will get near instant start-ups with that primer installed.

 

[Cap'nHandy]

Hmmm. How would you get that plumbed into an older set if carbs or where ever it is is spits forth it's fuel? Whats the price part number on those things?
Cant they be retrofit to older systems with no issues? That may be neat, but depending on the other aspects, I would want to weigh that against a quick poof of starting spray.


Blaine

 

[racerone]

Lots of those primers available used.---------------Have installed them on Mercury motors too.-------------Fairly simple to do.

 

[emdsapmgr]

The fuel primer system is best when used with carbs that have a small hose barb drilled and pressed in the atop of the carb from the factory. (1983 and newer.) The old choke-plate carbs don't have that feature. There were a few years around 1980/81/82, where OMC made bypass covers with the small hose barbs in each (all 4). The fuel primer injected choke fuel into these hose barbs via the typical hose plumbing used on today's electric fuel primer systems. It work well, just clunky by design. The problem would be to locate 4 of these special bypass covers. They must be NLA by now....

 

[D.spencer]

I am now in the finishing of the upgrade on my motor but what I discovered was that when I pulled the power head off the adapter plate, the exhaust port for above the water line was completely plugged with carbon. My thinking is that since it could only exhaust underwater, that may have been enough to prevent the fuel from being drawn easily into the engine.I have cleaned it out but I will have to get it back together to find out if I am right.

 

[Cap'nHandy]

Oh my.... your going to have another problem now... It involves clench factor and making sure your hat is on tight enough.

I look forward to hearing the end result.

Blaine

 

[jammer777]

haha well at least im not the only one with this problem! i seem to have made good progress on my issue, i had rebuilt the carbs on my 75 115 Rude and was having some issues with fuel coming out of the carbs when trying to start or priming the bulb, what i ended up doing was taking the upper carb back off, sealing the welch plugs, and resetting the float height and putting it all back together, and now no raw fuel leaking when priming the bulb or trying to start, and for me after this carb rebuild for the second time lol i am getting cold starts to engage and the motor running in about 20 seconds of cranking now, on the second or third try and running great for the rest of the day

So here is my start-up procedure that's working great for me now, hopefully this helps with someone else

1. Prime the bulb about 4 times, not quite until its hard
2. pull the cold start lever that advances the timing about 1/4 of the way up
3. leave the choke on the side of the carbs on auto (don't set to choke)
4. turn the key to on for about 10 seconds (not turning the engine over yet) this engages the choke solenoid on my engine
5. turn the key to start and crank it over and if doesn't start in 6 or 7 seconds stop for about 5 -10 seconds and start cranking again

** Note 1: the other thing to mention i did since pulling the carb and getting my cold starts under control was replace the battery, i think this was a big differences as well as it cranks much faster now as well, probably delivery more power to all components for a better start

*Note 2: one other thing to mention that might have helped, is that i took all the fuel lines that were connected with the zip ties (really?) and put on the tiny worm drive clamps that you screw on, removing any potential air leaks into the already touch fuel system


So hope this helps someone out there, i certainly am enjoying starting the boat in 20 seconds from cold now instead of 30 minutes! and appreciate this board and all the help very much!

 

[emdsapmgr]

Do the engine still have any original fuel hoses under the cowling? They are not rated to handle today's ethanol fuels.

 

[racerone]

If it takes 20 seconds of cranking for it to start there is something wrong !