1974 Evinrude 25hp wont run.

[Dalejam]

Hello all,
So I purchased this motor was sitting for a while. I replaced the points, coils (2) , rebuilt the carb . Replaced water pump .
So my issue is I have great spark, I have compression & fuel. But it does not run.
So I double and triple checked the above again.
I even regaled the plugs. I even spayed carb cleaner in the cyl put the plugs in and tried it.
Nothing. So I am going with the timing is off. How can I tell . The tiller handle could be off. I can only think it has to do with the timing for it never runs. So I am open to suggestions on how to set them up and verify what I have now that might help me.
Thank you all. Dale

 

[F_R]

It ain't the timing unless you got the blue coil wires swapped. You suggest the tiller handle. Put the shift in neutral and turn the twist grip toward "Fast" as far as it will go (in neutral). That is the proper start position.

 

[Dalejam]

It ain't the timing unless you got the blue coil wires swapped. You suggest the tiller handle. Put the shift in neutral and turn the twist grip toward "Fast" as far as it will go (in neutral). That is the proper start position.

I have tried that, but it did not start. at one point i thought i had the wires crossed because it did backfire. so i switched them , pulled off the flywheel to check the key, that was good .
So it there a way to tell when it should be fireing ? so i can see if it is fireing on the exhaust stroke by mistake.

 

[OptsyEagle]

If you set the points to 0.020" and you don't have the coils swapped then your timing is fine. You say you have fuel. Have you tried spraying some gas mix directly into a cylinder or through the carb to see if you get any reaction? If you do then it is most likely a fuel problem and if you don't it is most likely spark and maybe compression.

 

[Dalejam]

If you set the points to 0.020" and you don't have the coils swapped then your timing is fine. You say you have fuel. Have you tried spraying some gas mix directly into a cylinder or through the carb to see if you get any reaction? If you do then it is most likely a fuel problem and if you don't it is most likely spark and maybe compression.

The points are set to 0.020 , as for fuel, i took the spark plugs out sprayed some carbureator cleaner in the cylinders, put the plugs back in, and turned the throttle to wide open, pushed the start button and it spins and spins. not running though. i took the plugs out and held them to ground and pushed the button, alot of spark and looks bright. i have hooked up the gas can to the fuel line primed till bulb got hard. i never verified the fuel was getting to the carb, but since i sprayed the cyl with carb cleaner i would think it would atleast try to run for a sec or two. so after the rain is done i will verify that i have fuel at the carb.
what would be the next step to start to eliminate issues ????
thank you for the help....
Dale

 

[F_R]

So, the motor has been sitting "awhile", and you have rebuilt the carb. Have to ask, did you check the high speed orifice plug in the carb? It is deep in the hole behind the hex drain plug in the carb bowl. It must be clean. And I assume you are using fresh fuel, right?

How much compression is "has compression"?

 

[Dalejam]

So, the motor has been sitting "awhile", and you have rebuilt the carb. Have to ask, did you check the high speed orifice plug in the carb? It is deep in the hole behind the hex drain plug in the carb bowl. It must be clean. And I assume you are using fresh fuel, right?

How much compression is "has compression"?

you are correct, i took the carb apart and cleaned the orfis out, i could shine a light in the top of it and look through where the hex nut is and i could see clearly through it, the circle opening was clean. i did soak the carb in a ultra sonic cleaner for 2 hours, i checked the float height the level etc. according to what i read online and read it is correct. but i will pull the plugs and take the fuel line off the pump to see if it is pumping fuel out of it, then i will check the carb to make sure it has gas in it. i will also as a precaution buy new gas and drain carb and try it again. the gas i am using i got in december. so if i use new gas i can eliminat that as a issue. thanks for the help and reply....Dale

 

[oldboat1]

50:1 gas to oil ratio (2.75 oz per gallon of gas as I recall.) May be flooded -- let it set a bit, then then try without the choke.

On the flip side, the choke plate has to close tightly for cold starting -- plate at the front of the carb throat. Pull the air horn and close it with your finger to make sure it is closing tightly when activated.

 

[racerone]

The term ---" great spark " ----Means nothing to me.----Answer this , does spark jump a gap of 5/16" ( 8 mm ) or more on a test device.

 

[Dalejam]

The term ---" great spark " ----Means nothing to me.----Answer this , does spark jump a gap of 5/16" ( 8 mm ) or more on a test device.

I can’t say yes definitely . I will go to the auto store and purchase a spark tester. The one that you can screw in and out to see how big it can jump

 

[Dalejam]

I can’t say yes definitely . I will go to the auto store and purchase a spark tester. The one that you can screw in and out to see how big it can jump

So I got one I can open the gap to 3/16 and have spark. So I sprayed starting fluid into the carb , then closed the choke and gave it a try . It did not run. I did do the spark check on both coils . So to elimate fuel as a problem if I sorry starting fluid in the carb it should at least I think sputter…..
ok what’s next I am ready to start from the beginning to see if I did something wrong. But I have been over it at least 7 times. Checked points they go to ground open points and the one side is not grounded that is correct so it shows open not grounded so I can rule out the wires being wrong. I see my old points have a diffrent Condencer then I put in , original are 580422, the ones I put in are Sierra 18-5205 Condensers. Could this be a issue ?
Thanks again all
Dale

 

[Dalejam]

I can’t say yes definitely . I will go to the auto store and purchase a spark tester. The one that you can screw in and out to see how big it can jump

So I got one I can open the gap to 3/16 and have spark. So I sprayed starting fluid into the carb , then closed the choke and gave it a try . It did not run. I did do the spark check on both coils . So to elimate fuel as a problem if I sorry starting fluid in the carb it should at least I think sputter…..
ok what’s next I am ready to start from the beginning to see if I did something wrong. But I have been over it at least 7 times. Checked points they go to ground open points and the one side is not grounded that is correct so it shows open not grounded so I can rule out the wires being wrong. I see my old points have a diffrent Condencer then I put in , original are 580422, the ones I put in are Sierra 18-5205 Condensers. Could this be a issue ?
Thanks again all
Dale

 

[CaptnKingfisher]

"has spark, fuel and compression .. won't run"

Spark: I'd get a better spark tester since the one you're using now has a max gap of 3/16" (I wouldnt call 3/16" "strong spark" and since you're still at the hunting ghosts stage of diagnoses it's important to be precise.

Compression: As F_R already asked, what are your compression numbers?

Fuel: Did you use fresh fuel mix after your rebuild? If you had old fuel (water in your fuel) you certainly wouldn't be able to get it to fire without draining the carb again, and possibly spinning engine with plugs out to expel any water in cylinders. If using fresh fuel the whole time then as others have said I would try dripping some into the carb and turning over. If that works then you know it's a fuel delivery issue. If it doesnt work I would remove spark plugs and drip a little fuel mix into each cylinder and then replace plugs and turn the engine over. If it tries to start then looks like you have to rebuild the carb again. If it doesn't fire briefly with fuel in the cylinders, good compression and strong spark then I really don't know how to help. Something must have been improperly tested

 

[clemsonfor]

I'm going to say it, quit spraying carb cleaner or eather into the cylinders. It strips the oil out of it. After all it's a two stroke.

 

[Dalejam]

"has spark, fuel and compression .. won't run"

Spark: I'd get a better spark tester since the one you're using now has a max gap of 3/16" (I wouldnt call 3/16" "strong spark" and since you're still at the hunting ghosts stage of diagnoses it's important to be precise.

Compression: As F_R already asked, what are your compression numbers?

Fuel: Did you use fresh fuel mix after your rebuild? If you had old fuel (water in your fuel) you certainly wouldn't be able to get it to fire without draining the carb again, and possibly spinning engine with plugs out to expel any water in cylinders. If using fresh fuel the whole time then as others have said I would try dripping some into the carb and turning over. If that works then you know it's a fuel delivery issue. If it doesnt work I would remove spark plugs and drip a little fuel mix into each cylinder and then replace plugs and turn the engine over. If it tries to start then looks like you have to rebuild the carb again. If it doesn't fire briefly with fuel in the cylinders, good compression and strong spark then I really don't know how to help. Something must have been improperly tested

I will be taking the carb apart again tomorrow and rebuild it again. I will stop spraying it with starting fluid. I just think I will go over thing one thing at a time and verify everything is done correctly. Here is the spark checker i purchased to see the spark.
Thank you all
Dale

 

[racerone]

You think you have spark but to me it appears you don.t.-----With starting fluid the motor should at least bark at you like wild dog.-----revisit ignition work !!!!

 

[clemsonfor]

I will be taking the carb apart again tomorrow and rebuild it again. I will stop spraying it with starting fluid. I just think I will go over thing one thing at a time and verify everything is done correctly. Here is the spark checker i purchased to see the spark.
Thank you all
Dale

Get you a cheap spray bottle or grab an old Windex bottle and put premix fuel in it. You can spray that into the carb. Over time it will probably eat the seals but will get you through this. Or get a small water bottle and put a pin hole in the top and squeeze it into the carb throat. Doesn't take much fuel on this size motor to fire a time or two.

 

[OptsyEagle]

OK. I agree the carb cleaner is not the best substance for a 2 stroke, but with that said, you do not appear to have a fuel problem. If it was a fuel problem only you should have got some kind of response with the carb cleaner. So I would not bother looking at the carb at this point. My best guess is you have a spark problem, followed by a compression problem. You have been asked a few times what you mean by "has compression". That question needs to be answered.

For spark, I would get a real spark tester (or make one. see below) and make sure it jumps at least 3/8" on that tester. Next, I would check again that the coils are not somehow reversed. Try reversing them again and squirting some premix into the cylinders and see if she at least pops.

 

[racerone]

It appears he has a tester as per post #12-----Says he can't get more than about a 3/16" gap to fire.-----Posts a picture of it in #15 and apparently it will not fire across a 5/16" gap.

 

[Dalejam]

It appears he has a tester as per post #12-----Says he can't get more than about a 3/16" gap to fire.-----Posts a picture of it in #15 and apparently it will not fire across a 5/16" gap.

So what i have found from everyones HELP, is i would have to agree that the spark is not good enough, i say it is a great spark, but according to what everyone is writing it is a ok spark at best. so i will be going online and replacing the points, i see in POST #12 , I put down the differance in the condencers, can someone tell me will that have an effect on the spark?
i will post after i get new points, i did put in new coils also but i crossed refrenced them they are the correct replacements, so could it be the driver coil under flywheel ? the one i have has long wires on it that go to the coils, the ones i find online have short wires and a ring on them. are they correct ?
thank you all for the help
Dale