1967 40 hp Electric shift

[dozerII]

I am finaly getting around to looking at the leg on a friends 40 hp model RK29E
ser C530489. Every year he has had to change the oil a couple of times because it gets milky. I did a pressure test on it and found no leaks at 14psi, which it held for three hours. When I pressureize it, it pushes the drive shaft up a bit and will try to push it out. This morning I took the water pump off and there is a bad groove cut in the drive shaft where the top water pump seal rides. I then pulled the drive shaft out and it has a bad groove cut in three locations. Above the pump, below the pump and then one more below that. Is it possible the water that is getting into the oil is being put there by the water pump pressure pushing water down the shaft? Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks Glen

 

[boobie]

Re: 1967 40 hp Electric shift

Put it back together and pressure test it again. Use soapy water in a spray bottle and spray all sealing areas. If you have gruves in the d/s I think it's done. You can sometimes clean up the d/s with emory cloth, put in new seals and it may work.

 

[dozerII]

Re: 1967 40 hp Electric shift

Thanks for the reply Boobie. Bin there done that with the soapy water. Could not find a leak any where. I don't have a vacuum pump to do a vacuum test and I don't really want to spend a $100 bucks on one. The grooves in the drive shaft are real deep I would say at least a 1/16 of an inch. Is it possible for the pump to be pushing the water down into the gear box?
Thanks again Glen

 

[dozerII]

Re: 1967 40 hp Electric shift

Bump, anyone?

 

[1946Zephyr]

Re: 1967 40 hp Electric shift

I would try new oil and replace the washers on both of the plugs. If anything, the impeller would be pulling the grease out of the gearcase, because the holes in the wear plate are in towards the center, which is where the impeller pulls the water in from. The pressure is on the outer perimeter of the impeller.

 

[dozerII]

Re: 1967 40 hp Electric shift

Thanks 1946, the leg has new nylon washers, and gets water in it right away.
Glen

 

[1946Zephyr]

Re: 1967 40 hp Electric shift

Okay, I would try your pressure test again, with the impeller and housing fully assembled and just increase the air pressure 1 or 2 pounds at a time, until you see the air bubbles.

 

[dozerII]

Re: 1967 40 hp Electric shift

Okay thanks, I will have to give that a try.
Glen

 

[boobie]

Re: 1967 40 hp Electric shift

If the shaft is gruved that bad it's possible to get water in it from the water pump. I don't believe they used double lip seals back in those days. Another option is to take it into a dlr and have him vacuum check it as it shouldn't cost to much.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1967 40 hp Electric shift

Usually the pressure test recommended is between 7 to 12 pounds, no higher, and with the gearcase drained. While under this slight pressure, moving the shafts in/out, backwards/forward, the leak shows up via sight and/or sound..... usually the driveshaft to due a natural whipping, lashing action that sets up at that top driveshaft bearing/seal assembly.

Note.... If you can move "any" shaft sideways, either the bearing or shaft (or both) is worn and requires replacement.

However, especially if the gearcase has been dismantled for any reason, do not overlook that 307103 O Ring that joins the upper gearcase to the lower gearcase. This will show up when in the water with a drained gearcase.

Those driveshaft grooves..... many years ago I had a machine shop volunteer to fill grooves in a driveshaft on his engine just as an experiment on his part. The fill material appeared to be a bronze like metal. I installed this shaft in his engine as per his request..... to my knowledge, that thing is still running with no leakage. Something to contemplate.

 

[boobie]

Re: 1967 40 hp Electric shift

Joe, that was no more than brass welding rod. He brazed the gruves in the d/s and turned them down in his lathe to orginal size. My Daddy was an old machineist and seen him do it many times and it worked.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1967 40 hp Electric shift

Im against putting it back together and re pressure testing. Why not just reseal it? You'd be done before you fill the spray bottle. If changing the drain/vent screw washers doesnt fix a water intrusion, I would re seal completely.

If you are dead set on only replacing only the faulty seal, as Joe stated, you are using too much pressure. You are actually cheating by over pressurizing sometimes believe it or not. Id fill it with around 8 lbs, then turn the drive shaft or spin the prop, looking for bubbles. Adding a little 847 may help if there is casting damage present, depending on the seal.

 

[merc20076]

Re: 1967 40 hp Electric shift

I have a 1966 Lark 8 and I also had caramel or milky oil that came out the gearcase when I winterize my boat this past fall. I bought a gearcase seals set from Iboat, but I am afraid a bit to do this kind of job. I have will have the outboard factory book later this week, is this gonna help me alot? Special tools needed?

Thanks

 

[dozerII]

Re: 1967 40 hp Electric shift

Thanks so much for all the info. There is a lot of side to side play in the d/s and it is worn in about 15thou where the upper bearing rides. I think it is just plain worn out. I found a new old stock drive shaft on Ebay, but by the time I buy that and all the bearings, plus the seal kit I already have it would be less expensive to buy another o/b that is not an electric shift.
Thanks again Glen

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1967 40 hp Electric shift

I just noticed that youre canadian eh.

I have a few parts motors, let me go down to the basement and check the condition of the driveshafts. If I find one in good condition, you're more than welcome to it, just reimburse me for what shipping will cost me. I dont work on many selectric shift motors, so you are welcome to the shaft if you like. Let me know.

 

[dozerII]

Re: 1967 40 hp Electric shift

That's awsome HighTrim. I am fixing this up for an older retired fellow that is on a fixed income and doesn't have a lot of money.
Glen

 

[MrMartyr]

Re: 1967 40 hp Electric shift

Speaking to the grooves worn in the drive shaft where the seals run.

Has anybody here thought about or used a "speedy" sleeve in this application?

For those that do not know them speedy sleeves are manufatured by bearing/seal manufacturers. They are a thin steel sleeve that has a slight interferance fit to the shaft (usually installed with Loctite) that slides onto the shaft and covers the worn area. The result is a new surface, of slightly larger OD, for the seal to run on.

I have used them before on auto engine harmonic balancers and a couple of other applications. You can usually get one that is the right fit for you shaft and seal at a local bearing supply or industrial drive component shop. Would probably have to order it and would likely cost $25+ each. (cheaper than a new drive shaft I would suspect)

You would need to be able to measure the original diameter of the seal land on the shaft (with a micrometer or at-least a good quality dial caliper) then have the seal # or internal diameter tolerances of the lip seal to get the proper fits.

Just an idea....

Good luck

Marty

 

[dozerII]

Re: 1967 40 hp Electric shift

Thanks for the reply Marty, In this instance I don't think a speedy sleeve will work. The shaft has a worn spot where the bearing rides, then a deep groove for the first seal, then a keyway for the impeller, then another deep groove for the top seal.
Glen

 

[MrMartyr]

Re: 1967 40 hp Electric shift

Hmmm, kinda starting to smell like a new shaft, huh?

Bummer, that...