Anyone own a Four Winns Liberator ?

[jvthundercat]

Re: Anyone own a Four Winns Liberator ?

I have a 1988 261 Liberator with Twin (460), now 472's King Cobras. It took a couple of years, but this boat has been mostly redone. Engines are close to 500hp each. This baby really hauls the mail and it's sooooo smooth.

 

[rivrrat]

Re: Anyone own a Four Winns Liberator ?

I have the exact same boat, and i finally got tired of buffing and waxing the dark stripes only to have them cloud up again as soon as it got wet. In 1996 I sanded the entire hull with 400 grit, then applied 2 coats of 2 part urethane clear coat. I'm still happy with the results,...hav'nt waxed it in 15 years, colors still deep w/ no cloudiness, and the clear shows no signs of failure.

 

[j1hoekst]

Re: Anyone own a Four Winns Liberator ?

Does anyone know where i could find a crank pulley for a 460? mine split in half like a hamburger, and they dont make that part anymore. They also dont make a replacement part for it. OMC part # 912402. Thanks

 

[DRgrens]

Re: Anyone own a Four Winns Liberator ?

I've got a 1988 211 lib with a 350 king cobra. Only getting around 44mph gps and about 4200rpm. Anyone have the same setup in a 211 that can post the numbers they are gettin?

 

[brivander]

Re: Anyone own a Four Winns Liberator ?

Does anyone know where i could find a crank pulley for a 460? mine split in half like a hamburger, and they dont make that part anymore. They also dont make a replacement part for it. OMC part # 912402. Thanks

I would call Doug Russel marine, he should be able to point you in the right direction.

 

[brivander]

Re: Anyone own a Four Winns Liberator ?

I've got a 1988 211 lib with a 350 king cobra. Only getting around 44mph gps and about 4200rpm. Anyone have the same setup in a 211 that can post the numbers they are gettin?

Sound like you are WAY down on power, what prop? And post the number off your outdrive, we can verify it is the stock ratio...without that we'll all be guessing.

 

[DRgrens]

Re: Anyone own a Four Winns Liberator ?

Sound like you are WAY down on power, what prop? And post the number off your outdrive, we can verify it is the stock ratio...without that we'll all be guessing.

I have verified that the outdrive is stock at 1.41 gear ratio (#985273). My prop is a 14 3/8 x 19p ballistic. I have a 17p stainless that the boat came with that runs a slower speed at about 4400rpm. Last year I put an electronic ignition, updated ESA, and new plugs with no change in rpm.

 

[DRgrens]

Re: Anyone own a Four Winns Liberator ?

One other thing, on my 350 my crank pulley had some rust and the belts were wearing fast so I pulled it off, sandblasted it and repainted it. I retightened the belts to spec and now my pulley and maybe harmonic balancer are wobbling. The belt seemed to wobble a bit before but now it's real bad. Could the harmonic balancer be bad or maybe my pulley bent? How much runout can the harmonic balancer have?

 

[brivander]

Re: Anyone own a Four Winns Liberator ?

Using this: http://www.rbbi.com/folders/prop/propcalc.htm That puts your prop slip about 18% which is a bit high, but not completely out of the ordinary depending on your load, this DEFINITELY sounds like you are down on power. I would start with checking or having someone check to make sure you are getting the proper advance out of your ignition, run a compression check/tune up. That boat propped with a 19 Ballistic (which is about the best prop for that boat for top end) should break the 50 mark unless you are carrying a VERY heavy load of passengers/cargo. I would start with the ignition since you changed that start, with the base timing (~10degrees advanced is about average depending on your setup) and then run up your rpm's to make sure you are getting significant timing advance (~up to 30 degrees advance, again depending on your set-up), if you find that's ok you may have bigger issues, check the compression (you'd usually be able to hear something wrong if you had a cylinder or two WAY down on pressure), then do the tune up, check pug gap etc. the basics. Sorry that there is no easy solution here....

Someone may have a better idea, but that's where I'd start...

 

[brivander]

Re: Anyone own a Four Winns Liberator ?

One other thing, on my 350 my crank pulley had some rust and the belts were wearing fast so I pulled it off, sandblasted it and repainted it. I retightened the belts to spec and now my pulley and maybe harmonic balancer are wobbling. The belt seemed to wobble a bit before but now it's real bad. Could the harmonic balancer be bad or maybe my pulley bent? How much runout can the harmonic balancer have?

I'm not sure on that set-up for sure, but most from that time had some type of keyed harmonic balancer, make sure you have that keyed correctly when inserted or it won't go in flush...dear god, I hope you didn't bend that pulley from sandblasting, that would be a new one...v-belts are a little forgiving to wobble, but if it were my boat I'd try to figure that out now and save the headache later...if that balancer is on wrong you are going to have big problems in the not to distant future...

 

[DRgrens]

Re: Anyone own a Four Winns Liberator ?

I'm not sure on that set-up for sure, but most from that time had some type of keyed harmonic balancer, make sure you have that keyed correctly when inserted or it won't go in flush...dear god, I hope you didn't bend that pulley from sandblasting, that would be a new one...v-belts are a little forgiving to wobble, but if it were my boat I'd try to figure that out now and save the headache later...if that balancer is on wrong you are going to have big problems in the not to distant future...

Ok so last night I brought an indicator home and checked the runout. First I pulled the belts off and checked for play in any of the pulleys. Everything felt good but the water pump pulley had about .005" movement up and down. There are no leaks though and it spins smooth.
I noted earlier that I took off my crank pulley and sandblasted it, but I never removed the harmonic balancer that sits behind it. I turned the engine over slowly with the indicator on the balancer and it had about .020" runout. The pulley in front of it had about .025" runout. (it was about .040 until I unbolted it and spun it 120deg)
Also I checked the runout On the water pump pulley and it was about .030".
All the rest Of the pulleys look good.
I put the belts back on, tightened them up to spec and started the engine. There is still some vibration in the belts but it is better. I will be getting new belts tmoro to see if it gets better.
So do you think this is too much runout in the water pump and crank pulleys? Can't find tolerances anywhere.

 

[brivander]

Re: Anyone own a Four Winns Liberator ?

I also took a look and can't find the specs, but I'd keep an extra belt and tools handy just in case, I assume you haven't tested it high RPM yet. Maybe someone else can chime in here. Or you can try here http://www.speedwake.com/forums/cmps_index.php this is the longest Liberator Thread I've ever seen, someone here may be able to help you with a pulley too. Have you tried Doug Russel Marine yet? You'll need to call I'd imagine. Any luck with checking the timing?

 

[brivander]

Re: Anyone own a Four Winns Liberator ?

LOL I just noticed you WERE the person on speedwake , I'm a dumbass.

 

[DRgrens]

Re: Anyone own a Four Winns Liberator ?

Lol. Ya I thought I would post my low wot rpm problem there too. I'm surprised no one has posted numbers yet with the same setup as mine.
Well I spoke to a good mechanic last night and told him how much the pulleys are running out and he said everything should be fine once I get my new belts on tday. He also said to carry spare belts and tools just in case.
I'm gonna get him to rebuild my carb next week, hopefully that will help get my RPM up a bit. It's a quadrajet 4 barrel and I doubt it's ever had a rebuild with only about 250hrs on the boat. I had the timing setup last year at 8deg when I put in the electronic ignition conversion kit, but Im gonna check it again and check the advance.
Should I be checking with the boat under load with some help, or is it ok to check it in neutral?
Maybe I should just get a 502.....that would solve the speed issue

 

[brivander]

Re: Anyone own a Four Winns Liberator ?

Your numbers should be almost exact to the merc version I've had, my brother had an 88 211 with the OMC, my 87 with the merc was faster, but just barely, probably within a mph. If I had a full tank of gas and he was at 1/4-1/2 they were almost dead even, so trust me, you've got something going on.

 

[prox700]

Re: Anyone own a Four Winns Liberator ?

Hey guys...going through what you guys say about what pitch prop their running......i have a 87 lib that has a 460 with a 514 stroker kit....on gps i'm running 65mph at 5500 rpm...motor is around 500hp...aluminum heads, trick flow intake, gil exhaust, holley 850....the boat literally launches out of the water...was curious about what you guys think of the 4 blade props??? i have a 20 pitch 3 blade raker prop on it now

 

[brivander]

Re: Anyone own a Four Winns Liberator ?

Need a lot more information, outdrive/ratio? What size lib? What rpm was the engine built to operate in?

 

[prox700]

Re: Anyone own a Four Winns Liberator ?

its a 21ft....not sure of gear ratio...said when it was built could handle 6500-7000 rpm

 

[brivander]

Re: Anyone own a Four Winns Liberator ?

its a 21ft....not sure of gear ratio...said when it was built could handle 6500-7000 rpm

Woah, that's a serious motor, you must have spent some major coin. I'm not even sure where to start with this one....if it were me, and you are already seeing 65 out of the 211 you are making pretty good power and I would not push that motor past 6000--6200 unless you are REALLY sure the internals are up to the task. I'm not sure here either because if I punch in your numbers you show about 6% slip, and that's pretty much not possible with the prop and hull you have. I'm also assuming you have the 1.5 ratio alpha 1 drive which was the stock drive on that boat. The stock prop on that boat with a 350 was 19, and my guess is with the BB it's a 21, so I'm a bit confused. Are you reading off the factory tach? Something doesn't add up. Pull the numbers off your drive and verify what you have...

http://www.rbbi.com/folders/prop/propcalc.htm

A 4-blade prop is only going to lower your slip #'s since it grabs more surface area of the water so it's tough to say how this would help.

 

[prox700]

Re: Anyone own a Four Winns Liberator ?

I bought the boat this yr...guy i bought it from put 6500 in parts in the motor and 1800 in the outdrive to handle the power....i have the king cobra outdrive...boat came stock with the 460....i am reading off factory tach....