Inherited Electrical Nightmare

[Cofe]

First off, I am working at a factory as a mechanical maintenance manager. I know enough about electronics to be dangerous, but I am not a licensed electrician.
Ok now for the rest of the story? I have been repairing minor electrical repairs on 480, 230, and 115 volt building systems. On a recent repair of two 230 volt receptacles, I noticed that someone had ?robbed? one leg and the ground of the 230 volts and ran it to a 115 volt receptacle. The 230 volt system is on a 50 amp breaker and there is not a breaker associated with the 115 volt add on. I reported these findings to factory manager and he just shrugged his shoulders and walked away. I am thinking of repairing this situation, but I feel that a licensed electrician should do the job, but the manager won?t allow for the added expense.
Should I just write this situation off?
Move up the chain of command and report this situation? ?which would make my job hell?
[FONT=&quot]What would you do?any suggestions?[/FONT]

 

[86 century]

Re: Inherited Electrical Nightmare

That could be a big problem if someone got hurt by that circuit.

Personally I would disconnect the 110v part of the nightmare just to cover my own but.
Or install some type of circuit interrupter at the point they pulled the 110v off.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Inherited Electrical Nightmare

First off, I am working at a factory as a mechanical maintenance manager. I know enough about electronics to be dangerous, but I am not a licensed electrician.
Ok now for the rest of the story? I have been repairing minor electrical repairs on 480, 230, and 115 volt building systems. [/FONT]

Assuming that you are not kidding....YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING. :facepalm:
After describing a known significant code violation (at least in any jurisdiction that I am familiar with) you are putting both the company and yourself at risk of serious liability should the inevitable happen.
Get a licensed electrician in ASAP.... however you have to do it.

 

[foodfisher]

Re: Inherited Electrical Nightmare

Not knowing your responsibility there, your dealing with your conscious or your *****.

 

[bigdee]

Re: Inherited Electrical Nightmare

Don't you have qualified maintenance people working under you? Why not just write a work order to take care of it? I just retired from the same career as you.....something does not add up here. What size facility is this.

 

[Cofe]

Re: Inherited Electrical Nightmare

Don't you have qualified maintenance people working under you? Why not just write a work order to take care of it? I just retired from the same career as you.....something does not add up here. What size facility is this.

This is a small factory with 35 workers. I was hired on as Mechanical Maintenance Manager with no one else in maintenance to manage....Go Figure....Just a title.... Anyhow I was hired to not work on electrical systems, but the factory manager knows I can do it, and won't let me get a licensed electrician to correct this situation. My conscience is bugging me about this situation and I am actually thinking of finding work elsewhere.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Inherited Electrical Nightmare

Is there a possibility to track back who did the installation? Have them fix it right?

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Inherited Electrical Nightmare

What you have described is dangerous beyond belief and so code non-compliant that it is probably not a good idea to try and find the individual(s) responsible and let them have another crack at it....they might make it worse.:facepalm:

At the very least, just remove the add-on and don't replace it.

In our jurisdiction, you can take out a permit for home wiring and have it inspected after you have done the work....but commercial installations MUST be done by a licensed electrician.

 

[Cofe]

Re: Inherited Electrical Nightmare

Is there a possibility to track back who did the installation? Have them fix it right?

A previous factory manager made the installation years ago and was not a licensed electrician. I am afraid to look at all the rest of the wiring and switch gear in the factory, fearing at what I might find.

 

[bigdee]

Re: Inherited Electrical Nightmare

This is can be corrected for less than a $100:
1. replace 230 outlet with a 50 amp,4circuit load center
2. install a double pole breaker for the two 230 volt receptacle
3. install single pole breaker for the 120 volt receptacle
You already have the three receptacles and wiring so all you should need is the load center and the two breakers

 

[joed]

Re: Inherited Electrical Nightmare

Unless there is an actual neutral in the that 230 receptacle more wires need to be pulled before a load center could be used. Using the ground as a neutral is beyond dangerous. If the ground ever became disconnected between the receptacle and the panel all the metal parts of anything grounded on that circuit will become live shock hazard.
Just because the ground and neutral are connected in the main panel does not mean their use can be interchanged.
Also protecting a 15 amp receptacle with a 50 amp breaker is very dangerous. The cable will burn up well before any breaker would trip.

 

[Georgesalmon]

Re: Inherited Electrical Nightmare

Sounds like your between a rock and a hard place. You can always report the violation to your state OSHA. Be better if you had another person with knowledge of the problem report with you. OSHA has a lot of pi**ed of employees that call them just because they don't like their boss. Even if you do report don't expect anything to happen in a hurry.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Inherited Electrical Nightmare

Also protecting a 15 amp receptacle with a 50 amp breaker is very dangerous. The cable will burn up well before any breaker would trip.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

3. install single pole breaker for the 120 volt receptacle

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Inherited Electrical Nightmare

untouched it could be claimed as grandfathered in depending on when it was installed but now you have touched it you have to disconnect it and have it installed to todays code that includes all the new gfci rules for portable tools. depending on what state you live in and if the company is commercial or industrial will determine if it can be replaced by a state licensed electrician or by a qualified/authorized electricain.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Inherited Electrical Nightmare

untouched it could be claimed as grandfathered in depending on when it was installed.

I kinda doubt that! You can't grandfather in something that has always been dangerous. Would be foolish to leave that as it is.

Not sure how big this company is but, if I were the OP, I would be going up the management chain until I found someone with a little bit of intelligence that understood the situation.

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Inherited Electrical Nightmare

cofe if you are working with electrical especially 480v and above you will also need to learn the new arc flash rules especially if you do any live diagnostic work as osha is getting real hot on that one. at work we now have to follow all ppe for arc flash on anything over 120v.

i agree with you bruce it is dangerous but you have to remember the days when ever house in the usa only used a 3 pin plug on the range/cooker and there are millions of them still in use today (the 110v used by the stove/cooker isnt fused and is connected to the ground making a netrual to ground connection thats not in the service point which is against code). when i changed mine i had to get a state certified elec to check the work as im allowed to work on 25kv but im not allowed to work on my own house with out a lot of inspections and hassle (good thing realy as it stops the wife asking for me to do things around the house or helping friends)

 

[hrdwrkingacguy]

Re: Inherited Electrical Nightmare

If you are aware of a problem and take it to a superior and they do nothing and someone gets hurt or killed, You could have some liability to it...If it were me I would take it out or run a home run back to the panel with the right size wire and breaker...It doesn't say wire size in the original post, but even a 12ga on a 50a breaker is going to turn the wire into an electric heater if there is a short...Lawyers would have a field day with this if there is ever an incident...

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Inherited Electrical Nightmare

i agree with you bruce it is dangerous but you have to remember the days when ever house in the usa only used a 3 pin plug on the range/cooker and there are millions of them still in use today

Not even close to being the same scenario as what we are talking about here.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Inherited Electrical Nightmare

i agree with you bruce it is dangerous but....

And the lawyer for the plaintiff would stop you in mid-sentence ...and cut you off at the knees right there....:facepalm:

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Inherited Electrical Nightmare

if you start a job on monday at a company and on wednesday some one gets hurt then osha will not expect that you would have know there was a safety issue. how ever if you start on monday and find this mess on tuesday but fail to fix/tag out or make a order to have it corrected then someone gets hurt on wednesday then you have a share of the blame as you touched it. grandfathered was the wrong word its plausable denability which you lost the moment you found the problem now you need to report it as a safety issue and to make it safe which could be as simple as tagging the receptical out so no one uses it until it has been corrected