Electrical problem?

[Redfred1]

Don't know if I have a electrical problem or not; this has occurred 2 days in a row; and has happened at close to the same time. The main 200A breaker trips! Have to reset it; and everything is OK.
Things I know are: the cover for the panel is hot; but can leave hand on it. Panel is on a inside wall in the garage (not affected by the Sun).I have a sub panel that is inside the house (no Main); but have a 150A breaker for the house in the main panel. Panel is about 15 years old. Breakers are sized right; have two ground wires run.
Our Power source is from a CO OP; I know they do crazy things with their grids; etc; but haven't called yet
Could this be a bad main breaker? The temperature has been in the middle 90's; humidity sometimes higher.
Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[Tnstratofam]

Get an electrician to look at your panel. Heat at the breakers indicates a problem somewhere. Could be from resistance from damaged wiring on the house side or on the utility companies end. If you here buzzing or static coming from a particular breaker cut it off and see if the panel cools down. Either way a qualified electrician should be able to check the amp draw on your panels to narrow down the problem.

We had a similar problem last year which turned out to be a bad connection at our weather head on our utility companies end. They came out and redid all their connections and solved pur problem. I happened to walk outside one night and saw one of the connections arc.

 

[Redfred1]

Thanks for the reply. When I said "Bad" breaker' I meant "Weak" breaker. reseting it; it does not trip. The CO OP does have a trouble shooter that will come out. Had similar problem a few years ago. They came out; found bad connections on the meter; had to change out the meter box.
My main concern is naturally find the problem; but resetting that main breaker is a B#@%H! I can reset it; but I don't think the Admiral can. More comment welcome and appreciated!

 

[alldodge]

this has occurred 2 days in a row; and has happened at close to the same time. The main 200A breaker trips

Wouldn't be the first time a breaker just got old and needed replacing, but that said, happening at about the same time suggest maybe the panel is drawing that much current.

Look at the time of day and what is running. If its real hot outside the AC may be drawing more then normal. Even if it is something drawing a bit more then normal, this would tell me you need to either reduce the load, or increase the feed size.

Use the trouble shooter

 

[poconojoe]

It could very well be that the breaker is bad. It happens all the time. Or It could be overloaded. My bet is unlikely, but a test with an amprobe would determine this. Or it could be a bad connection or a bad piece of equipment somewhere causing it to trip. Get a qualified person to check it out asap. The breaker's job is to protect you and your family.

 

[Redfred1]

I did call the CO OP; they sent their troubleshooter out. (Very quick service)! Found out a couple of things.
I have a 150A panel (not 200). He checked the load on every breaker and circuit; found out the "Killer" is the AC.unit. Also found a 30A that was questionable.Changed it for the H of it. He also agrees it could be the Main. He said the only thing left was to upgrade to 200A; but would require a new weatherhead plus 00 wire. (Have 2 0 now).
Will save up for another main. Thanks for all the comments!

 

[Tnstratofam]

If your A/C system is pulling more amps than usual it could indicate a weak start capacitor. I replace allot of them during the summer months. If they are weak it can cause your compressor to pull more amps during start up as well as during its run cycle. The capacitors are pretty inexpensive especially compared to a new compressor or damage to your panel.

Just thought I'd mention it as it is pretty common for them to fail this time of year.

 

[Redfred1]

Thanks for the reminder Mr..T. That's another thing to put on the "To Do" list. I changed out the contactor and start cap last year; but the condenser coil hasn't been cleaned this year. Seems strange; that Main tripped two days in a row around the same time (5PM); and hasn't done since.

 

[alldodge]

Seems strange; that Main tripped two days in a row around the same time (5PM); and hasn't done since.

Wonder if there was a brown out going on about the same time?

 

[Redfred1]

They said "No"; but that's their C/S. I did check the input voltage (My 2 a 1 the TS used). All 3 were close; + or _.

 

[bigdee]

What size AC? What size is AC breaker?

 

[Redfred1]

OK; still got troubles. Last time I posted was in June. Since then I have had to replace a wellpump ($700; had shorted start windings). AC cratered(shorted start winding). First 2 times the breaker tripped; it was midday. Last 2 were early morning. Had one this morning; no service for 4 hours. Backup generator is a lifesaver. Going to get CO OP people a call again.

 

[bruceb58]

but would require a new weatherhead plus 00 wire. (Have 2 0 now).

00 wire is 2/0 wire.

 

[bigdee]

Heat in panel is a tell tale sign. Thermal breakers generate heat but only a significant amount when current remains close to the trip threshold. Other causes of overheated panels are loose connections, either on buss bars or terminals. Also the breaker's internal contacts can generate heat if faulty. 1st step is to monitor load on each leg feeding panel to see if the 150 amp panel is near peak load. Check voltage on each service leg to check for near equal voltage. check amp draw on each leg for unbalance.....if severe loads can be balanced by re-arranging breakers. Pinpoint the heat source and focus from there. BIG PROBLEM is 200 amp breaker in a 150 amp panel....sounds like your co-op is right,you need to upgrade your service entrance to 200 amp.

 

[Tim Frank]

The best advice was in post number 2...."Get an electrician to look at your panel. Heat at the breakers indicates a problem somewhere."

This is life-safety issue and you are now a further month down the road..

Thanks for the reply. When I said "Bad" breaker' I meant "Weak" breaker. reseting it; it does not trip.

Not sure what you mean. You began this by stating that you are tripping a 200A breaker, and that you have excessive heat in your panel.....that should scare the bejabbers out of you.

Per Bigdee's comment.
The way I read the OP is that he already has a 200A service....2/0 wire and 200A main....he is running a 150A pony panel in the house....off the 200A main panel.
All the steps Bigdee suggests are bang on, plus I would suggest a complete re-torque of all panel connections.,,,either DIY or get and electrician in to do it....sooner than later IMO...

 

[Redfred1]

Had to read my first post.. I have 2 panels; the one in house has no main. Several breakers had 2-3 wires; only had 220 breakers. 1st H/O added master BR and garage. He added a panel in the garage; (no main; 12 breaker panel; had 2 100A breakers; 2 50A; the rest 110 all 30A. I said 200 amp 200A panel (my mistake). It is a 150A panel; 42 spaces available.W/H was changed out.Wire is as big as my thumb. I pulled new wire for all 220 circuits; no splices; no wire nuts. What you call pony panel was run to a 125A breaker in garage..All 220 circuits are in garage.(10). Barn; stable; and pump house all wired to seperate breakers.
Back to post. I did have the electrician come out; (same one who installed the panel. I used to work with him) He rechecked all lugs etc. Said breakers looked balanced to him. He tripped the main;checked input voltage on each leg. one side was 5V higher. He disagreed about the main. The main was warm; but not hot. Just checked it now; just warm. 102dg outside now.
Did call the CO OP. They are bringing out a monitor meter to check. Will give update!

 

[bigdee]

What type service entrance conductors aluminium or copper? 2/0 aluminium is rated 150 amps....copper 200 amps.

 

[Redfred1]

Good Morning! Looks like another hot one today..Don't what they use; but there is no aluminum wire on this property;all copper.
CO OP showed up right at dusk.yesterday( bucket truck; 2 men) One checked the transformer; redid some connections. The other one looked at the panel (cover has been off since this started); went back outside and installed a different looking meter. He said it would be checked by them.Their technology. He did comment that the transformer was installed just after Hurricane Ike; and commented they had replaced a bunch of them. Had no power for 28 days; that is when I got the backup generator; one of my better investments.
Ball is in their Park now! Will see what goes down.
Will give update. Again; thanks to all for comments and suggestions.

 

[Redfred1]

Got a call from the CO OP yesterday PM. They are bringing out a new transformer. The Rep also wants me to make copies of all receipts of electrical stuff we have replaced 30 days prior to the date I called in; and 30 days after the transformer is installed. The bad news is they are going to reimburse us in credit; which is OK .I told him the AC wasn't repaired yet; he said they would pay.
Hopefully this will be over soon.
Thanks again for all the help and suggestions.

 

[alldodge]

Credit is good, so you won't get a electric bill for a bit.
Sure glad to hear they are going to fix the issues