Home Light Switch challenge

[bigdee]

I think I see your problem. Old 4 way terminals are configured as top terminals are one pair and bottom terminals are the other pair. New switch is paired on each side instead of top and bottom. Take the bottom red and white wires and put them on left side of switch with red on bottom and white on top. Now put the other red on right top and black on bottom right.

I just looked at old switch in post #3 it is exactly paired top-bottom......thats your problem. New switch is paired side to side.

 

[massimofinance]

Thanks everyone! I will recheck the switches per bigdee’s advice. As promised, here are pictures of the master three way and the bottom of the stairs three way.

(have to say, the Iboats forums are the best)....

 

[bigdee]

OK both 3 way switches are using red and white for travelers. This means the 4 way switch should have 2 reds and 2 whites. Not sure where that black wire came from unless it was pigtailed. I would re-pair side to side like I mentioned and go from there. Question.....did they ever work?

 

[bigdee]

disregard wire legend on that photo....it is misleading, white inside cable is a traveler.

 

[massimofinance]

Thank you Bigdee. Going to swap the wires tomorrow per your advice. Yes, the switches worked fine before. I’ll report back tomorrow.

 

[poconojoe]

Don't assume the last guy used the proper color wires.
The only way to fix this at this point is to use a tester.
A 3 way switch is basically a single pole double throw switch. 3 way and 4 way switches never have an on-off embossed on their toggles. If there are four screws on the switch and the toggle handle has on-off on it, then it's not a 4 way.
​​​​
All 3 way switches have one screw that is a different color. Usually black compared to brass for the remaining two. That darker colored screw is the key to getting it right. It will be the constant hot feed on one switch and the switch leg (which feeds the light) on the other switch. The other two wires are the travelers which only connect between the two switches. They can go on either of the brass screws. You can mix them up, it doesn't matter.

4 way switches only have the travelers passing through them. No switch leg or hot leg. They have two darker screws and two brass screws. Two travelers from one 3 way switch connect to the two black screws and two travelers from the other 3 way switch connect to the brass screws.

​​White should be the neutral and should be spliced and buried in the box. Not connected to the switch. But as I said, you don't always know what the "other" guy did so sometimes colors mean nothing.

I hope this helps and if you need more help, just ask.

 

[poconojoe]

The next 3 way you tackle, compare the switches, noting one black screw vs two brass screws. Make sure you move the wire from the black screw of the old switch to the black screw on the new switch. The two remaining wires go on either brass screw, they can be mixed up it doesn't matter which brass screw.
Same with the 4 way. Wires that were on black screws go on either black screw on the new switch. Wires on the brass screws go on either brass screw of the new switch.

 

[bigdee]

​​White should be the neutral and should be spliced and buried in the box. Not connected to the switch. But as I said, you don't always know what the "other" guy did so sometimes colors mean nothing.

I hope this helps and if you need more help, just ask.

There is NO neutral in a 3-way switching circuit...so YES white is often used as one of the travelers. I use red and white for travelers if it is a switch leg FROM light fixture. I use red and black travelers if it is a feed through TO the light fixture. This is my way of knowing what type of circuit it is if I have to go back later on to troubleshoot. It appears that the his circuit is a switch leg as in post #24.

 

[massimofinance]

I just looked at old switch in post #3 it is exactly paired top-bottom......thats your problem. New switch is paired side to side.

Bigdee. Your advice was spot on for one of the four way switches. Old switch was bottom top paired and I switched it to side by side. The other four way doesn’t work and the other lights don’t work either. I am thinking I screwed up one of the three ways now.

Odd thing is there are two rooms (basement and study) that I didn’t touch the switches in that don’t work now either. Wonder if the fuse went?

 

[bigdee]

Odd thing is there are two rooms (basement and study) that I didn’t touch the switches in that don’t work now either. Wonder if the fuse went?

I would check fuses/breakers first. It is possible you pulled a wire loose from a junction when you pulled the switches out. Check all wire nut connections in the boxes you opened for loose wires.

 

[211libwtfo]

If it’s sharing a neutral then it’s not going to work. Generally speaking you take the power to one three way and carry a switch leg out of the other three way in which case the neutral will pass through the boxes. And in older homes where it use to be knob and tube and then rewired a neutral was probably shared and mite be the cause of other lites out. Or there was a pigtailed set and over looked. But therory and drawings all work great on paper but when it comes to doing it’s not always black and white.

 

[Scott Danforth]

or red.....

 

[211libwtfo]

I’ve only been shocked a few hundred times. And that coin is two sided. Am I that bad of an electrician or as a wise journeyman told me if ya ain’t getting shocked you ain’t working hard enough. Probably the former but I prefer the later.

 

[massimofinance]

I checked all the neutral wire nut connections. All are fine. Still doesn’t work. Some more photos. I did noticed a breaker is loose in the fuse box. I’ll call an electrician for that. Thanks to the entire community for all this excellent advice. Hope this helps future ibost’ers!

 

[bigdee]

I checked all the neutral wire nut connections. All are fine. Still doesn’t work. Some more photos. I did noticed a breaker is loose in the fuse box. I’ll call an electrician for that. Thanks to the entire community for all this excellent advice. Hope this helps future ibost’ers!

Looks like a single white wire with a wire nut......if so look an unconnected wire. Also check all those wire nut connections.

 

[redneck joe]

Call an electrician. Fires start from crap wiring.

 

[massimofinance]

Looks like a single white wire with a wire nut......if so look an unconnected wire. Also check all those wire nut connections.

Thanks bigdee. I saw that too but it was unconnected to begin with and there is no other orphan wire in there.

 

[massimofinance]

Had an electrician come to the house today. It took us three hours to see that one of the breakers in the electrical panel for the generator looked on, but it was off. We flipped it and all works fine. Sucks to waste money, but I learned a lot following him around the house troubleshooting my issue. Posting here in case someone else has this problem.

 

[bigdee]

Had an electrician come to the house today. It took us three hours to see that one of the breakers in the electrical panel for the generator looked on, but it was off. We flipped it and all works fine. Sucks to waste money, but I learned a lot following him around the house troubleshooting my issue. Posting here in case someone else has this problem.

Hate this wasn't solved here BUT don't feel too bad.....it took a pro 3 hours to find the problem!

 

[redneck joe]

money is never wasted on a safety issue.

I always feel each breaker, never trust visual - especially this hour as I cannot see straight on due to it's location. I learned the 'looked on' trick a long time ago.