What's a cord of oak cost?

jasoutside

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Re: What's a cord of oak cost?

and also the hot water with wood.

What is your method? OWB?

I currently heat the house exclusively with wood (add on forced air wood burning furnace). I'd really like to heat my domestic hot water too but I haven't seen many set ups with hot water outside of OWBs, ya know.

Cheers!
 

j_martin

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Re: What's a cord of oak cost?

What is your method? OWB?

I currently heat the house exclusively with wood (add on forced air wood burning furnace). I'd really like to heat my domestic hot water too but I haven't seen many set ups with hot water outside of OWBs, ya know.

Cheers!

Fuel is burned in a low pressure boiler out in a room off the woodshed. Heat is transferred to the hot air furnace with a modified A coil. It's an old air conditioning A coil. The cap tubes have been replaced with a manifold of bigger tubing. You can purchase water a-coils also. Heat is transferred to the water heater with a shell and tube heat exchanger and an open system (stainless) circulation pump. If I do it again I'll use a brazed plate heat exchanger. The boiler is a wet back wood fired boiler from the Arab Oil Embargo era in the 70's. I've had to do a bit of welding on it, but it's built like the proverbial brick outhouse to ASME standards and I expect it to last indefinitely.

You can buy a dedicated water heater. We used to use one that was about 18" in diameter, with a wood box about a foot in diameter and a couple of feet long. It doesn't take much wood to heat 30 gallons of water.

I have also set up a small fire box under an old commercial gas fired water heater vessel. It had multiple flues and a collector on top, so a fast fire of scrap pine under it would heat 50 gallons of water in about 30 minutes. I used that setup for about 6 years till the vessel finally rotted out. It was thin when I got it.

I suspect you'll decide to go the A-coil and boiler routine after you get tired of the wood mess in the basement. Adding a water heater is quite simple at that time.

I worked in boiler design and controls design back then. My control set is built with computer grade gold plated million operation cradle relays and looks about like the works in an old pinball machine. One set of thermostats control the wood and gas systems. Instructions are feed the wood boiler, or pay the gas bill.

I plan someday to build up a control set with a PIC controller, thermocouples for water temp, ambient temp, stack temp, and water heater temps, and stepper motor control of boiler draft and maybe some valves. Goal is to completely and safely control the wood boiler even if it's over fired or power fails, and of course to fuel efficiently.
 

rbh

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Re: What's a cord of oak cost?

Fuel is burned in a low pressure boiler out in a room off the woodshed. Heat is transferred to the hot air furnace with a modified A coil. It's an old air conditioning A coil. The cap tubes have been replaced with a manifold of bigger tubing. You can purchase water a-coils also. Heat is transferred to the water heater with a shell and tube heat exchanger and an open system (stainless) circulation pump. If I do it again I'll use a brazed plate heat exchanger. The boiler is a wet back wood fired boiler from the Arab Oil Embargo era in the 70's. I've had to do a bit of welding on it, but it's built like the proverbial brick outhouse to ASME standards and I expect it to last indefinitely.

You can buy a dedicated water heater. We used to use one that was about 18" in diameter, with a wood box about a foot in diameter and a couple of feet long. It doesn't take much wood to heat 30 gallons of water.

I have also set up a small fire box under an old commercial gas fired water heater vessel. It had multiple flues and a collector on top, so a fast fire of scrap pine under it would heat 50 gallons of water in about 30 minutes. I used that setup for about 6 years till the vessel finally rotted out. It was thin when I got it.

I suspect you'll decide to go the A-coil and boiler routine after you get tired of the wood mess in the basement. Adding a water heater is quite simple at that time.

I worked in boiler design and controls design back then. My control set is built with computer grade gold plated million operation cradle relays and looks about like the works in an old pinball machine. One set of thermostats control the wood and gas systems. Instructions are feed the wood boiler, or pay the gas bill.

I plan someday to build up a control set with a PIC controller, thermocouples for water temp, ambient temp, stack temp, and water heater temps, and stepper motor control of boiler draft and maybe some valves. Goal is to completely and safely control the wood boiler even if it's over fired or power fails, and of course to fuel efficiently.

I can not remember if I asked you this question or not last year, but the neighbours boiler has or did start to pit and leak.
Could this be the same issue as lets say diesel engine piston sleeves that pit on the water jacket side due to to high or low PH
(air bubble's attaches it self to the outside of the sleeve and starts the pitting???)
 

jasoutside

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Re: What's a cord of oak cost?

I worked in boiler design and controls design

Holy cow, no kidden! I really appreciate your write up but you are way over my head man, sorry!

My 35 year old Energy Mate wood furnace is about ready to make room for something newer and more efficient.

I was hoping to find something already built in (water jacket deal) or some sort of companion storage tank system ready to be plumbed up.

I did some looking a while back and remember only a couple of manufactures of such an animal. I also remember them being big $$$!

I probably save about $2500ish per winter on LP heating costs and I'd love to have that extend to hot water too, ya know.

Thanks man!
 

Mark42

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Re: What's a cord of oak cost?

Just an FYI... I stopped at the "for sale" bulletin board at the A&P this morning on my way out. I see a few ads for cut and split hardwoods going for $225 delivered. Guess prices are down over last year around here.
 

Tim Frank

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Re: What's a cord of oak cost?

Just an FYI... I stopped at the "for sale" bulletin board at the A&P this morning on my way out. I see a few ads for cut and split hardwoods going for $225 delivered. Guess prices are down over last year around here.

Nah, they are just selling smaller "cords" than last year....:eek::D
 

j_martin

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Re: What's a cord of oak cost?

Just an FYI... I stopped at the "for sale" bulletin board at the A&P this morning on my way out. I see a few ads for cut and split hardwoods going for $225 delivered. Guess prices are down over last year around here.

Nah, they are just selling smaller "cords" than last year....:eek::D

There's more of us "engineers" in the woods cutting and selling firewood this year.
 

j_martin

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Re: What's a cord of oak cost?

Holy cow, no kidden! I really appreciate your write up but you are way over my head man, sorry!

My 35 year old Energy Mate wood furnace is about ready to make room for something newer and more efficient.

I was hoping to find something already built in (water jacket deal) or some sort of companion storage tank system ready to be plumbed up.

I did some looking a while back and remember only a couple of manufactures of such an animal. I also remember them being big $$$!

I probably save about $2500ish per winter on LP heating costs and I'd love to have that extend to hot water too, ya know.

Thanks man!

I imagine my boiler would be about 4-5 grand new. It was about 1200 bucks in the 70's. The company that made it folded before the warranty was up, but like I said, I was involved in the design and it's built like a brick sh!phouse.

Most of the wood boilers of the era were dry backed, and expansion and contraction of the unwet back broke them. If you can fine one, (Jensen, Steel King, and others) you can repair it and then convert it to a wet back boiler and it'll last a long time. It's actually pretty easy to fashion a water jacket on the back. Look up ASME stay bolt specifications and put enough of them in the large flat area.

Keep your eye open for an old Buderus boiler. They are a cast iron German boiler that is top shelf, and live forever. sometimes in the spring or summer someone will sell one for roughly scrap iron prices. If you want to make one yourself, a drum in a drum, with both wet back and front is very efficient and easy to build. Fawcett built one like that in the 70's, and they're still around.

The new outdoor boilers have a huge water capacity, making anti-freeze, especially propylene glycol safety freeze prohibitive, so they have to be either drained down or run during the cold weather or they'll freeze up and break. Additionally, they are ventilated atmospheric pressure systems, so they are constantly absorbing oxygen from the air. Boiler water chemistry has to be constantly monitored and adjusted for reasonable life of all the heating system components.

In contrast, a low pressure boiler is sealed to the outside, and has an expansion tank to compensate for increased water volume as it heats up. My 80,000 BTUH wood boiler holds only 30 gallons of water, and the whole sytem about 35. It's filled with 45% propylene glycol anti freeze, a can of boiler water treatment and water pump lube, and a can of stop leak. That's it for the last 5 years. If it has to shut down and go cold, it won't freeze. Also, it'll go from stone cold to heating the house in about 20 minutes.
 

j_martin

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Re: What's a cord of oak cost?

I can not remember if I asked you this question or not last year, but the neighbours boiler has or did start to pit and leak.
Could this be the same issue as lets say diesel engine piston sleeves that pit on the water jacket side due to to high or low PH
(air bubble's attaches it self to the outside of the sleeve and starts the pitting???)

The diesel engine sleeves pitting turned out to be an electrolysis issue as I remember.

"Modern" outside wood boilers are open to atmosphere, and the oxygen they absorb plays he!! with everything. The water chemistry has to be monitored and adjusted frequently for reasonable life. That's why I like a sealed low pressure boiler. The damage to the neighbors boiler is probably widespread and unrepairable.
 
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