Polar Vortex and EV's - Interesting

[GA_Boater]

Most of us know that lead/acid batteries lose power and efficiency when cold. I thought lithium-ion batteries used in electric vehicles wouldn't be as vulnerable in extreme cold. There I go thinkin' again. :doh:
[h=1]Tesla, Jaguar and Nissan EVs lose range in freezing temps[/h]

 

[Scott Danforth]

without an internal combustion engine to supply heat which is normally wasted, the HVAC has to rely on toaster elements, etc.

so about a 30-35% degradation of output from the temp, there would be another 20-25% loss in battery power just due to keeping the heat on.

my guess, many people got stranded....

 

[DeepCMark58A]

Electric cars are just not feasible for 75% of the population.

 

[harringtondav]

Many people are drooling over EV cars. The performance of the Tesla is often mentioned. Also the 'green' image of electric cars. What many fail to recognize is kWh is just another measure of energy consumption. (1 gal gas = 33.7 kWh) And although the Tesla will beat most any production IC engine car in a drag race, it won't last for too many drag races before it creeps back to the charging station.

And that "green" thing? Unless that EV charging station is hooked to its own wind turbine farm, most of those kWhs come from CO2 producing fossil fuel power plants.

But I'm not against them. But I think the common notion that they'll replace petrol engines in five years is a dream. Someone in my car needs a bladder break every 2 hrs. At 28 mpg/70 mph that's 5 gals./168 kWh. And I wouldn't top off for another 2 hrs. A 10 minute stop. A Tesla X is touted to have over that 280 mi range. But it would take over 5 hrs.to recharge. If you're at you destination, great. Otherwise, book a motel. 31 ave mph for a long distance trip is too long for me.

 

[Scott Danforth]

I sometimes think that an EV would be a good commuter for me.... 100 miles round trip..... then a traffic jam has me inching along for 3 hours and I burn half a tank of gas....... in an EV, i would need a tow.

Then when I run to WI, its a straight shot of 1500 miles in 22 hours. no way an EV would ever work for that unless I was towing a diesel powered genny

 

[GA_Boater]

Stylish;



Not so stylish;



For a truly green self charger - Wind turbines! Works day and night unlike solar charging and an EV couldn't hold enough panels.

 

[wahlejim]

Scott Danforth I feel your pain with those scenarios. We travel from Wisconsin at least once per year to Sarasota. The Tampa area has the most unpredictable traffic I have ever encountered. I can plan around Atlanta and hit it at 2-3am and breeze right through. Tampa is a different story.

Just a couple of weeks ago we made our trip. Left Wisconsin at 1:00PM, minor traffic in Chicago at 3PM. Straight through Indy, Louisville, Nashville, Chattanooga and mountains without even tapping the brake. Hit Atlanta at 1:30AM, no problems. Got into Tampa at about 8:45 AM, stop and go all the way to Sarasota. Didn't arrive until 11AM. 2 hours and 15 minutes to go 50 miles after traveling 1150 miles without issue. That trip would have been a nightmare with an EV.

The only way it can become sustainable is a battery exchange station that Tesla introduced a couple of years ago. The concept is similar to a gas station, but you pull over a pit. Employee in the pit works his magic, drops the old battery, replaces with a fully charged battery, and off you go. Takes 4 minutes, enough time to go in and use the bathroom, etc. The cost was prohibitive though, $60 and you get a battery of unknown age and condition. I think they scrapped that idea for fraud reasons. If a guy in a 5 year old Tesla knew his battery was going bad, he could go get a better battery for $60 rather than the $1000s they charge for a new one.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Jim,

take I-43 to beloit, 90 south to 39, then 39/51 south Bloomington, then 74 over to 57, 57 to 24, 24 to Nashville, then 40 over to Chatanooga, then 75 south. it is longer mileage wise, however cuts out about 3 hours of Chicago/Gary/Indy/Louisville. We have made the trip in as little as 20 hours from Manitowoc to Bradenton

i will warn you....its boring as hell thru the center if Illinois, and other than joking about stopping for Effing Eggs with the Effingham, there is not much to do for the 10 hours driving thru Illinois farm country.

also avoid 75 between Ocala and Sarasota from the hours of 7am and 10am, 3:30 pm to 11:30 pm.... all the bad drivers that didnt go to Arizona are in Tampa, St Pete, Bradenton and Sarasota...

Scott

 

[harringtondav]

We have made the trip in as little as 20 hours from Manitowoc to Bradenton

I was in Manitowoc once. Nice place. Home of the world's best sky hooks. We were visiting a gem of a CNC tool company, Parlec. We bought their tool presetter vs. the over rated, over priced Royal.

I spent tons of my employer's money in WI. Kearney & Trecker in Milwaukee, 'till they and Warner & Swasey, became part of Giddings & Lewis in Fond du Lac, Dadson corp gun drill near Port Washington.

I think eastern WI rivaled, or surpassed the Bridgeport CT area for machine tool expertise. All gone now, or in the hands of foreign corps. I hope we never see a re-do of WWII. Japan and Germany produce most of the big machine tools and precision measuring instruments.

 

[Scott Danforth]

agreed there.

 

[gm280]

I still think Hydrogen powered vehicles is the way to go. But that is just my thinking. Zero pollution and actually no more dangerous then gasoline vehicles were when they were introduced initially. Hydrogen is literally everywhere. And once such an energy source becomes common place, the cost to provide it will be manageable and cost effective as well. JMHO

 

[82rude]

gm280 Hydrogen is Da Bomb !

 

[Scott Danforth]

I still think Hydrogen powered vehicles is the way to go. But that is just my thinking. Zero pollution and actually no more dangerous then gasoline vehicles were when they were introduced initially. Hydrogen is literally everywhere. And once such an energy source becomes common place, the cost to provide it will be manageable and cost effective as well. JMHO

the problem with hydrogen fuel cells, especially those relying on carbon nano-tubes is they do not recover from a freeze event. there has not been significant progress in the past few years.

Im thinking mechanical fuel pump diesel engine running on french fry oil supplemented with methanol.....the fuel is essentially a waste product and your car/truck smells like a TGI Friday..... however the fuel solidifies in cold weather..... back to the original topic of cold weather and alternative powered vehicles.

 

[64osby]

I'm waiting for a vehicle powered by dilithium crystals.

 

[GA_Boater]

I don't want a vehicle. Transporter Room - Beam me up, Scotty! LOL

 

[BWR1953]

Ready or not...

Like it or not...

Believe it or not...

EVs are coming and will stay.


Not likely that they'll replace the petrol powered fleet in 5 years. But within 10 years the automotive landscape will be greatly changed. The "wheels" are already in motion, so to speak. :car:


I watch TV business shows every weekday and EVs are routinely discussed, including future prognostication. But also real world discussions by honest-to-goodness manufacturers who talk about their plans and their implementations. And not just Tesla. Sadly, TV guests don't provide links for me when they're talking!

A hundred years ago folks didn't believe that autos would replace horses. Decades before that, it was steam powered trains.

Don't forget about aircraft. Or electricity in homes/businesses.

Technology doesn't stop. It grows. Sometimes quickly and easily, other times by fits and starts. But it doesn't just stop.

We either adapt or get passed by. I'm almost 66 and come from a technology background. I was a first user of the internet (NASA) and continue to keep up as time brings about change. Some folks simply cannot accept change. My 76 y.o. buddy down the street can barely make phone calls and text with his iPhone. My 74 y.o. cousin couldn't even do that.

But change comes anyway. Sometimes there's not even demand... check the history of the Sony Walkman.

Think of this... when a major power outage happens and blacks out large sections of the country, the engineers, technicians and others don't sit on their hands and say "Let's just forget about it and go back to the year 1830." They get to work and find ways to overcome the challenges. Happens in the space biz all the time too.

The same thing applies to the shortcomings of EVs now. They'll be worked and overcome and progress will go on. Just gotta deal with it. :nod:

A few articles:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/13/business/electric-cars-charge-bmw-porsche/index.html
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/02/05/electric-ford-f-150-prototype-spy-photos/
https://futurism.com/the-byte/chinese-kaiyun-pickman-electric-pickup-truck
https://electrek.co/2018/01/15/vw-all-electric-car-platform-produced-us-2020/
https://www.hyundaiusa.com/ioniq-electric/index.aspx

And yes, there are naysayers. Doesn't mean they're right though.

https://qz.com/1533976/automakers-may-overproduce-14-million-electric-cars-by-2030/

 

[sphelps]

Eventually they will get the kinks out .. But in the mean time don’t take my truck and SUV away ..
‘I want a car like the Jetsons !

 

[BWR1953]

Eventually they will get the kinks out .. But in the mean time don’t take my truck and SUV away ..
‘I want a car like the Jetsons !

https://bgr.com/2019/02/02/flying-car-jeston-speeder-drone/

 

[sphelps]

At the risk of being dismembered.. Please keep your hands and feet inside the vehicle at all time please ..
While your up there you could use it to trim the hedges !

 

[harringtondav]

EVs are coming and will stay. Not likely that they'll replace the petrol powered fleet in 5 years. But within 10 years the automotive landscape will be greatly changed. The "wheels" are already in motion, so to speak.

I agree. Passenger EV vehicle designers will develop higher capacity, longer range, faster charging batteries. But it takes a lot of kWh to move a loaded semi tractor/trailer down the road. Same with the alternative RR diesel electric locomotives, although I think most will run on overhead electric power by the time the petrol dries up.

Now, hauling and driving my boat with EV? Both are kWh intensive. I'll be dead before it is the only solution. Fishing from the dock ain't so bad.