Wanting to turn my slalom ski better. How to do that.

bmowers

Seaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2012
Messages
65
Hi, I have posted some to this forum so I do have a question about turning the slalom ski. First a little background. I started two summers ago water sking. First on two as most people then after 9-10 times worked on the slalom deep start. 9-10 attempts later I had that down and for the past two summers have gone out 45-50 days each summer. The start is the most fun part for me. I can cross the wake with absolutely no fear and love to do so. The problem is my turns are really sloppy and I seem to slow down in the turn and just wallow then kind of coax the ski to turn. I have some videos if needed. I took some slalom lessons (3 days)
in Florida this March and I really liked the instructor Jodi Fisher's ski school in Winter Garden. At any rate, I thought I could jump into making slalom course turns but that was not to be.

What he worked on was getting my weight more forward on the ski, more between the boots CG. He did this by wanting me to bend my ankles forward more moving me oh, 2 inches forward or so. He said he could tell that the water was breaking too far forward on the ski and that I was sitting back. The 2nd thing he worked on was getting my hips square to the ski at all times. (is that correct?) Is that why I am stalling the turns and need to use more of the forward part of the ski when it comes to getting the turn started? Does any of this make sense? I hope I am explaining it in terms you can visualize. I really, really want to start turning like the videos I have seen of Skibrain etc. I have the strength, and flexibility etc to do it. The instructor had to hold me back as I did 12 pulls in the morning and 12 in the afternoon and wanted me to pace myself.I think I need a better technique. I am a pilot so I understood the CG shift part of the equation. Eventually I will get this. I just need a little push. Looking forward to a great 2015 ski season!!
Thanks
 

oldjeep

Admiral
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May 17, 2010
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6,455
No advice here, but out of curiosity what speed and line length are you running at and on what ski?
 

bmowers

Seaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2012
Messages
65
No advice here, but out of curiosity what speed and line length are you running at and on what ski?
Jeep,
Weight 170 lbs 67" HO Comp Free Ride 2010 model, 75' line length, I like 29-30MPH but the instructor wanted to run me at 26. The ski is rated for 26-30mph.
 

oldjeep

Admiral
Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
6,455
Wow, can't imagine trying to ski that slow with that much rope. I'd expect there to be sinking on the corner, but I'm not an instructor. (or more than a hack skier in the course most of the time).
 

skibrain

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Jun 17, 2004
Messages
766
Jodi Fischer knows a lot more about skiing than I do, but I'll offer a few ideas. You are motivated. And you are skiing a lot. Those things are huge. Most people never get their skiing fitness to a point where they are strong enough to push it.

Slowing the boat down is a sure way to coach skiers who are starting in the slalom course. It helps teach fundamentals of body position by breaking down each part of the course at a slower pace and helps avoid developing bad habits. 90% of my skiing is not in the slalom course. I try to incorporate good slalom course technique into my skiing, but that is not my ultimate goal. I like to ski because it's fun. So let's just talk about having fun and set the slalom course aside for a minute.

You mentioned you're a pilot and while I'm not, I understand some of it well enough for some analogies. Greater air speed provides crisper control response. Drop towards stall speed and it all gets mushy. If you are flying at high speed you can bank a turn aggressively. Not enough speed with too much bank and you drop out of the sky.

With water skiing: If I have adequate speed, execute quick turns with correct CG, a lot of lean is possible. That brief period where I’m free of the boat (no line load) being supported by a carving ski at a high lean angle is just a lot of fun. I ski at 34mph boat speed, accelerate pretty hard behind the boat and probably have wake-crossing speeds more in the mid to high 40s. Speed is my friend.

1. A really easy thing to try is to speed up the boat. See if that feels less boggy and crisp. Try it. You might like it. Then as OldJeep mentions rope length, you might try taking a 15’ section off your full 75’ line. The shorter rope gives a quicker pendulum swing and more lively acceleration out of your turns.

I haven’t seen you ski, but a wide-body ski has lots of “wing area.” Theoretically a wide ski is giving you more support at a lower speed. But the width also just doesn’t roll onto edge as quick, and with slower speed tends to sit lower in the water. Not to bash your gear, but the Comp Freeride is more on the minivan end of the performance spectrum (I'm a fan, have driven minivans for 20 years and did an 8 hr trip in ours today). But I'm not going to go corner-strafing in my Odyssey. It handles pretty well for a van but under steers, has a high CG, and has tall-sidewall all-season tires.

2. Have you tried another slalom ski? A narrower ski will have less planing surface and more a challenge to get up on, but you might give one a try. Borrow a friend’s ski or do a weekend demo and see what you think. Most performance skis now are quite forgiving and handle great. And I think might be more fun, feel more nimble and crisp as they’re designed for more speed. I frankly don't feel like most skis wake up and ride correctly until 30 mph +

Sorry for such a long post.
 
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skibrain

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 17, 2004
Messages
766
And by faster, I mean not 26 mph.
30, even 32 on your HO might be worth a try.

Post a video - that would help understand what's going on.
 
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bmowers

Seaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2012
Messages
65
And by faster, I mean not 26 mph.
30, even 32 on your HO might be worth a try.

Post a video - that would help understand what's going on.
Ok, thanks so much Skibrain. Will post Youtube on Sunday.
 

haulnazz15

Captain
Joined
Mar 9, 2009
Messages
3,720
I agree that 26mph would be absolutely dragging along for almost any adult male on a 67" slalom. I run my 69" HO at 30mph and think it's about as slow as I like to ride, and that's not even in a course-setting. I'm also a pilot, so you're in good company.

The instructor was absolutely correct about your body positioning, especially in regard to your hips. If you allow your hips to swing towards the boat, your upper body will ultimately follow, which results in your body being out of alignment with the direction of the ski. The line length is probably a bit much, but you should still be able to make adequate turns with a long line.

I almost wonder if your turns might be haphazard due to your timing/commitment to the turn. When approaching a buoy, you will still be on the outside edge of the ski in order to keep slack out of the line. When you reach the buoy, you ride the ski flat very briefly while you transition to to the inside edge in order to complete the turn. The handle should be kept low near your hips throughout the process, and your hips should remain in line with the ski, as well as your CG.

If you are taking too long trying to glide to the buoy on your approach, you'll lose speed (which you had little to begin with at 26mph) which makes the turns much more difficult. The loss of speed/angle also translates into fighting the rope/boat, which causes poor body positioning/technique/etc. It's the PIO of water skiing, lol. The turns are just like an approach to a landing: keep all inputs minimal and stabilized, with deliberate motions when you come around the buoy so that you fully commit to the turn.

Definitely post some video so we can see what's up.
 
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Joined
Jul 7, 2015
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I'm only a weekend hack, but agree that 26-30 MPH sounds a little slow. I ski somewhere around 34-35 MPH, not sure if this is really correct, but it feels OK and is plenty of fun. I'm jealous that you're skiing 45-50 days each summer! 
 
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