How did they do it before 4X4's.

GA_Boater

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Wiki Corinthian Leather says - Much of the leather used in Chrysler vehicles during the era originated from a supplier located outside Newark, New Jersey

Ricardo told Letterman during a show that it meant nothing. :eek: Then Chrysler invented the K-car.
 

Scott Danforth

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FWD in the snow is a myth.

unless you have dedicated snow tires, the first time you lift going into a fast turn with the slightest bit of snow...... you skid on a FWD, you lock up the front just enough to loose ability to steer. there is no such thing as all-season tires.

I learned winter driving with a 3-speed manual and snow tires on my first beater.......an AMC gremlin..... you could plow snow until the grill broke off in the snow..... went thru 4 grills that winter (and 8 realtor signs as floor boards). got stuck once. was 4 miles out of town and couldn't push snow any more, and had to wait for the plows.... (had to see my GF at the time)

however as kids, we spent hours doing donuts in empty parking lots and across frozen lakes. something most of today's drivers will never enjoy or understand.

then my first job after college exposed me to ice racing and ice drags in the Wisconsin winter...... a beater..... extra tires, tubes, 5# of drywall screws and a screw gun.....

https://www.sinissippiiceracing.com/
https://www.merrillicedrags.com/

https://www.dragzine.com/news/video-how-to-make-nailies-for-ice-drag-racing/

it comes down to traction.....traction.....traction, then the skills of the loose nut behind the wheel

however that is off-topic

back to towing..... full frame perimeter cars with big blocks are vary similar to half-ton trucks of the day. Silvertip's 455 old 98 had a TH400 trans. that is the same driveline that was in many GMC trucks after the Olds build diesel was yanked and replaced.

Early GMC's used poncho V8's or Olds V8's (both were low RPM, High-torque motors from the factory)

Todays plastic cars simply do not have any structure for towing, much less the brakes or transmissions that the cars of old used to have.
 

Old Ironmaker

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JimS123 1st off front wheel drive in the snow is not a myth. I know it isn't. I had a heavy 81' Caddy Eldorado and was the only one that could get out of the driveway on our street in Hamilton. As far as never getting stuck in a big rear wheel drive you are lucky. I constantly got stuck, especially in the mid to late 70's when entire cities were shut down around the Buffalo and Niagara area in Ontario. I shoveled many a huge car out, even with snow tires. The worse was the family VW Bug. I've had both front tires off the ground. I know where you live and remember those storms from the mid 70's to 79'. My Nani lived in the projects in NT for a few of those years and had to get food and meds in by sno machine. Like others I wouldn't think of driving around here in some conditions we get without our 4X4 truck, in the 70's who cared, we were young and stupid. It doesn't have to snow for a few weeks but these Lake Erie winds blow snow from the west side of the roads to the east side and drift on the road, then the next day it blows it to the other side. A few years ago a few roads should have been closed as the drifts were over 20' high and down to 1 narrow lane with zero visibility. It's the wind that kills us here not the amount of snow we get. I cheer when we get rain, that freezes the snow in place once it gets below zero C. So I have to respectfully disagree Jim.

As far as that Corinthian leather, yes it was a Mad Ave. hoax. Even today when a auto manufacturer advertises "leather" interior it is only some leather in the product unless you are ordering a Bentley or some supercar like a Ferrari or Lamborghini.
 

Old Ironmaker

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Regardless what vehicle was used for towing in the day, people knew how to actually drive rather just "aim" the car like drivers today. A good majority of folks today have no idea how to open the hood or where the dipstick is.

My wife's 07 3.5 LT Nissan did not even have a dipstick for the tranny. 300,000 miles and never changed the plugs. They would likely break off anyway after 150,000 miles. To get the plastic shroud of any new vehicles is a chore in itself. I have never checked the oil in my 011' Silverado. The oil after 10,000 KM's looks new.
 

bigdee

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For those that grew up on the farm they know how to tow the impossible with a 6 cylinder, 3 on the tree pickup!
 

JimS123

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JimS123 1st off front wheel drive in the snow is not a myth. I know it isn't. I had a heavy 81' Caddy Eldorado and was the only one that could get out of the driveway on our street in Hamilton. As far as never getting stuck in a big rear wheel drive you are lucky. I constantly got stuck, especially in the mid to late 70's when entire cities were shut down around the Buffalo and Niagara area in Ontario. I shoveled many a huge car out, even with snow tires. The worse was the family VW Bug. I've had both front tires off the ground. I know where you live and remember those storms from the mid 70's to 79'. My Nani lived in the projects in NT for a few of those years and had to get food and meds in by sno machine. Like others I wouldn't think of driving around here in some conditions we get without our 4X4 truck, in the 70's who cared, we were young and stupid. It doesn't have to snow for a few weeks but these Lake Erie winds blow snow from the west side of the roads to the east side and drift on the road, then the next day it blows it to the other side. A few years ago a few roads should have been closed as the drifts were over 20' high and down to 1 narrow lane with zero visibility. It's the wind that kills us here not the amount of snow we get. I cheer when we get rain, that freezes the snow in place once it gets below zero C. So I have to respectfully disagree Jim.

As far as that Corinthian leather, yes it was a Mad Ave. hoax. Even today when a auto manufacturer advertises "leather" interior it is only some leather in the product unless you are ordering a Bentley or some supercar like a Ferrari or Lamborghini.

OMG, even more nostalgia. And, it so interesting how experiences differ among different people.

As a young adult, and with my Dad recently retired, our togetherness was highlighted by our hunting weekends. There was NO excuse to not going - we simply HAD to go to camp, even with Mom's insistence that we needed to stay home. Dad had VW Beetles for many years and THAT was the car we chose if the weather was bad. Throw a set of chains on the rear wheels and there was NO place we couldn't go.

The only problem was where to tie the deer carcass since the fenders had no tie-on points.

Our infamous "Blizzard of '77" was another great memory. When the weather started to get bad, my shop closed so I went home early. The city closed just before my wife called and said come pick me up. My RWD '73 Dodge got me all the way to downtown Buffalo (and back). That day there were cars stuck everywhere but I just plowed that old V8 around them all.

Thirty one years with a RWD driving from NT to downtown and only 2 single days did I ever shovel the drive before going to work. Just plowed right thru it......LOL.

I DO admit, however, that the last few years were not fun. That FWD was squirrely. Give it a little gas and the front end would slide around. Not comfortable if the steering ain't positive. Rather have the back end slide. But that's just me. Nevertheless, my Buffalo experiences prepared me for anything in any type of vehicle and I never got stuck in a FWD either.

But I admit times do change. My old Ponch sits covered in the back of the garage in Winter now. The front 2 stalls house 2 AWDs. Now If it snows, we sleep in and wait till the sun shines.
 

Old Ironmaker

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Yep Jim we could probably talk about the old days in NT for a few pots of Hortons coffee. Like I said I practically lived on Payne avenue until it was time to go to kindergarten. That 1st day of The Blizzard my girl and I played hooky from work the day before skied all day and spent the night in Ellicottville. We skied until noon on a 1/2 day pass then left. We stopped in NT around 1PM to see my grand mother and headed home just in time as the news had warnings already. I don't know if it was a good thing to escape and always wondered what it would have been like to get snowed in at a ski resort with a hot 21 year old. All fun and games until the food and water ran out.

I didn't have any trouble getting used to front wheel drive. I bought a 79' Audi 5000 S in 80'. So I had been driving FWD for years until it became the norm. Dad's last car was a new Toyota Camry in 2009, he took it back a month later, I have to give it to Toyota the dealer was fantastic, he didn't loose a penny. I bet at least 3 friends and family all bought new Toyotas when they heard what they did for an 85 year old. I bought a Chevy. 4X4 of course, need a 1/2 ton 4X4 to get milk and eggs 2 miles away in August. And tow the boat.

edit: No problem throwing and tying down a Western NY deer over top of a bug. They are the size of our Sheep here in Ontario!!!! My cuz from NT and his hunting pals have a hunt camp near Rome I think. They actually take young inner city kids from Buffalo and Niagara Falls teaching them proper safe weapon handling and Deer hunting through some WNY group.
 
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82rude

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My dad had a 60,s vw station wagon the pulled a coleman popup with a tinny strapped on it.One of the best oldies I ever had was a 77 short dodge van with a 318 and posi.Though like all 70,s vehicles it developed cancer and rotted away Now I use my ford edge awd and I use some pretty narly ramps with zero issues.The edge is fantastic in the snow when driven sanely which far to many people today don't do.I started towing boats when I bought my 77 mercury grand marquis brougham.460 cid motor that was totally nutered buy smog crap.
 

Old Ironmaker

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My dad had a 60,s vw station wagon the pulled a coleman popup with a tinny strapped on it.One of the best oldies I ever had was a 77 short dodge van with a 318 and posi.Though like all 70,s vehicles it developed cancer and rotted away Now I use my ford edge awd and I use some pretty narly ramps with zero issues.The edge is fantastic in the snow when driven sanely which far to many people today don't do.I started towing boats when I bought my 77 mercury grand marquis brougham.460 cid motor that was totally nutered buy smog crap.

I don't know what model of VW wagon you had but can tell you the "fastback" model in mint condition went for over $50,000.00 USD at the last Barret-Jackson auction, with fees the seller got over 60K for it. Those 20 something window VW Hippy busses are going for over $100,000.00. Wowza. The problem with all these vehicles selling for big bucks may cost the owner more for a body off restoration that they can sell them for.

As far as you driving a Ford today, my deepest condolences. I have no idea why I don't like Fords. I've had a 65' Galaxy 500, a 70' Thunderbird with some massive engine, had a 70' Econoline short box van, a 72' Capri that just flew, and drove Dad's massive 70' Marquise Bromham after High School. I loved that car. Big enough to crash in the back seat and my feet hardly touched the rear door and I was almost 6' tall then. Come to think of it they didn't give me any problems and they were at or past their best before date. But I still won't buy a Ford.
 
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When pulling a boat out of the water with a FWD car, have some friends sit on the hood to give you extra weight/traction at the front wheels.
 

matt167

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My dad had a 60,s vw station wagon the pulled a coleman popup with a tinny strapped on it.One of the best oldies I ever had was a 77 short dodge van with a 318 and posi.Though like all 70,s vehicles it developed cancer and rotted away Now I use my ford edge awd and I use some pretty narly ramps with zero issues.The edge is fantastic in the snow when driven sanely which far to many people today don't do.I started towing boats when I bought my 77 mercury grand marquis brougham.460 cid motor that was totally nutered buy smog crap.

The biggest degrade in performance wasn't the smog crap. The valve timing was 2* retarded. In those days, if you bought a cop timing set, you got the timing straight up and gained multiple horses with nothing else done. They will produce 300hp in near stock form
 

82rude

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Though ive owned fords for 40 plus years theres been a few non fords also_Old Ironmaker one of my favs was my dads 67 amc ambassador with the typhoon 343 280hp motor.File pic ,ours was a deeper metallic blue.
1967-amc-ambassador-232-6-cyl-very-clean-automatic-61k-runs-great-10.JPG
 

Old Ironmaker

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That's a beauty 82rude. 2 too many doors though. AMC built some serious HP cars. They couldn't compete with the Big 3.The survivors with 2 doors are bringing big bucks. I saw a Javelin go for 60 grand a while back.
 

prlwng

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My Uncle that still lives in North Tonawanda NY next to the Erie Barge Canal towed, launched and retrieved his big heavy 18' cedar strip with a huge 80HP Johnson strapped to it on The Niagara River, The Great Lakes and the canal in the 60's and early 70's with an AMC Rambler, rear wheel drive. If I can remember that long ago I think he had rear snow tires on all year. I remember those huge bolt on side view mirrors he put on every time he hit the water. That was before it was mandatory in North America to tow anything heavier than a Tinny with a full size 4X4 and I see 1/2 ton 4X4's towing them as well. Have ramps changed that much? I'm seriously asking how they did it then without 1/2 ton 4X4's?

Even now pull my boat all over South Dakota and eleswhere fishing. Tho the boat is only a 1650 sc 60hp merc she pulls easy. This is with a 2wd chevy silverado, 4.8 cu, manuel tranny. Boat is a 1650 sc 60hp merc. Did put a true posi in it and will not put in on mud. Will pull it also with wifes 4wd jimmy.

It is not mandatory to have a 4wd pickup for towing. Even in the old days a good station wagon or real car would pull the old IO to and from lakes and rivers. If we could get the pu it was a 2wd also. Posi trac. We felt special. Did not have to clean it so much after fishing/camping. The cars and mini vans now are tin cans that will flex to much. No frames under them.

I have seen 4wd trying to pull a boat of my size out with one front and one back spinning. Yet I next and dont spin at all. Posi works.
 

sphelps

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That's a beauty 82rude. 2 too many doors though. AMC built some serious HP cars. They couldn't compete with the Big 3.The survivors with 2 doors are bringing big bucks. I saw a Javelin go for 60 grand a while back.

My first car was a Javelin ... A1972 with a 360 cid ... I worked all summer as a striker on a shrimp boat when I was a teenager to buy it .. I wish I still had it .. I had it painted a nice metallic blue and had ET polished aluminum slot mags on it ..
 

Old Ironmaker

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My first car was a Javelin ... A1972 with a 360 cid ... I worked all summer as a striker on a shrimp boat when I was a teenager to buy it .. I wish I still had it .. I had it painted a nice metallic blue and had ET polished aluminum slot mags on it ..

I wish I kept only a dozen select cars. If I sold them today I could bring in a half million smakaroos, USD!!!!! One just went at Barrett Jackson for 100K.
 

racerone

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I remember being at an auction one time where the highest bidder got applause from the lookers .-----I said---" why is that "-----You have to remember that it is a show for TV and rich folks !!-------Only selected models / limited production / owner history units get the big money.
 

Old Ironmaker

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I remember being at an auction one time where the highest bidder got applause from the lookers .-----I said---" why is that "-----You have to remember that it is a show for TV and rich folks !!-------Only selected models / limited production / owner history units get the big money.

There are more than a few great deals on day 1 of the Barrett-Jackson.This past auction there on the 1st day a 55' T-Bird convertible all done to pristine condition went for 25K even with buyers premium it was less than 30 grand. That is well bought as they say. If you are bidding on Saturday and Sunday, yes you need to be a millionaire. I just like to pretend I'm buying.
 

Lou C

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Hahaha. Now you have brought back a lot of fond memories. Plymouth....pfffft. Try a VW Beetle. It had NO defogger and the heater was gasoline operated and provided almost nothing except gas vapors.

Also, the floorboards were known to rot out, so if it rained you needed to wear galoshes so your feet didn't get wet.

VW Beetle, had one of those (1965) and a VW powered dune buggy and used to switch the engine with the seasons. In the Beetle, the heater only worked if:
Your heater channels were not rotted out
Your heater boxes were not rotted out
The cables for the flaps moved
and you were at 2000 rpm or higher!
in a bad winter you could actually get ice on the INSIDE of the windshield!
 

Old Ironmaker

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I killed a few batteries in the 69' Bug we had when the gas heater fan didn't shut off. I liked the idea of the battery in the back seat. Dad had a late 80's Buick where the battery was in the back seat as well. I don't know why they all don't put them back there. Always nice and clean out of the elements.
 
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