1997 GP1200 and WB760 - both need starting spray the first time of day

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cfauvel

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The starting spray has the upper cylinder oil added to it. FYI

If they sit for more than day (with battery charger on) and I try to start them by pulling the choke, I can crank and crank and crank they won't start.

but if I do a quick squirt of spray they start right up and stay running.

I'm thinking the diaphragms in the carbs need to be replaced, since the carbs act like their own fuel pumps....am I right in thinking that.


once started and run, they start right up for the rest of the day....but without the starting fluid, I wouldn't be able to do that initial start.
 

QBhoy

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Hi

two things I’d say.

1 don’t use starting spray on these. You are running briefly without lube from the 2 stroke.

2. Most common cause of this is usually a failed check valve in the line from the tank. Some folk get lazy and around it by fitting a primer pump in the fuel line. Sometimes works, but danger is blowing the diagram with this.
You might find that if you pull the choke on...turn her over with throttle pumping...she will kick. Turn choke off and turn over with throttle and catch her. Might just do the trick.
 

QBhoy

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Yeah. Part 15.
Small chance of it probably, but thought I’d mention. It’s very easy to get the fuel filter direction wrong. Very common mistake. At first glance you think the fuel travels a certain way. But it actually goes the opposite way from what you would naturally think when just looking by eye. These filters are one direction only.

But usually the check valve or a leak somewhere that causes your issue. Very easy to check
 

cfauvel

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But usually the check valve or a leak somewhere that causes your issue. Very easy to check

ok novice with these things, how to easily check?

I'm guessing the idea is that the valve allows fuel to fill up the line to the carbs, then prevent the fuel from flowing back to the tank.

So having a bad check valve, the vacuum pulse of the engine is not enough whilst cranking, but is enough to draw fuel once started.

UPDATE: looking at where that check valve is and following the lines, it appears to be an AIR check valve, is that right?

So it has been two days since last started, looked at the fuel filter assembly and saw it was full of fuel, tried the recommended steps to start GP1200 from QBhoy (pull choke, crank whilst throttling up), it caught and stalled, pushed the choke in and re-tired and it started fine. Tried the same on the WB760 and it too started fine.

Next step is it wait longer and re-try.
 
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QBhoy

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ok novice with these things, how to easily check?

I'm guessing the idea is that the valve allows fuel to fill up the line to the carbs, then prevent the fuel from flowing back to the tank.

So having a bad check valve, the vacuum pulse of the engine is not enough whilst cranking, but is enough to draw fuel once started.

UPDATE: looking at where that check valve is and following the lines, it appears to be an AIR check valve, is that right?

So it has been two days since last started, looked at the fuel filter assembly and saw it was full of fuel, tried the recommended steps to start GP1200 from QBhoy (pull choke, crank whilst throttling up), it caught and stalled, pushed the choke in and re-tired and it started fine. Tried the same on the WB760 and it too started fine.

Next step is it wait longer and re-try.

Excellent. That’s exactly the way I used to start my Yam GP800r and it’s pretty much the universal trick. Choke on....crank whilst pumping throttle. It will kick. Choke off...crank again and catch it on the throttle. Always worked for me.
 

Leardriver

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Our local dealer has put a primer on these since they first came out. A squirt of fuel seems to make them happy.
 

cfauvel

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UPDATE: went out Saturday. Before we left the house started them, and they started right up with very little effort and no hiccups at all during the whole day.

On Sunday I tried to start the red one and it took a lot to get it started , pull choke, crank squeeze trigger, push in choke crank, squeeze trigger....over and over , until it finally started (no starting fluid used)

I'm on the fence on putting on a primer system.
 
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QBhoy

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Just put a proper one on it then. Some put an outboard bulb primer on them. They blow the wee fuel pump to bits.
 

cfauvel

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Just put a proper one on it then. Some put an outboard bulb primer on them. They blow the wee fuel pump to bits.

I wonder if a 2 stroke edger primer (clear bulb that you push) would be enough to fill the carbs. I mean there isn't much volume in them,
 

dazk14

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1st- ALL the choke plates MUST be fully closed to get those to cold start. ZERO gaps!
That means getting them individually adjusted on a multi carb setup, so they all are perfectly closed when choke is pulled.
Ensure the choke pull is not slipping back slightly. Some of them have tensioners.
ANY choke plate GAPS and you can be there all day trying to start it!

What often happens is, the choke plate nearest the cable will close, but due to linkage and shaft slop over time, the other cylinders are not fully choked.
Leave choke on until it fires off in some manner.

2nd- Depending on how the ski runs, slightly richening up the low speed adjuster(s) can help a ton as well. start with 1/8th turn counterclockwise. That is really part of tuning the ski and certainly reversible, but 1/8-1/4 richer can work wonders for startup.

3rd- a shot of starting fluid is fine. It is certainly FAR better than cranking a ski until the cows come home. I really wish the "Old Wife's Tale"about starting fluid would end. It's actually very difficult to find starting fluid Without lubricant these days.

If you get the aforementioned setup correctly, the ski should reliably start. Primers certainly are a very common mod and can be discussed further, but do require some work to get them installed.
Good luck!
 
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