Assuption: RV Antifreeze clogs watercraft

[alldodge]

This is just an assumption, but right now we don't have any other answer. The PWC is winterized by pumping 4 gallons of RV stuff thru the motor. Used RV stuff and not straight antifreeze (exhaust manifold) because of the inner cooler. The PWC didn't get used any last year and sat on an Easyport lift. This year close to the end of the season it was fired up and in short order it was over heating.

PWC is a Seadoo RXT 4-Tec which has been modified with a Riva performance system (larger injectors, inner cooler, sea strainer, supercharger, exhaust).

Started by pulling hoses off, and was able to blow thru the inner cooler (no clog). Removed the hose which connected the manifold to the stainless exhaust off. Could not blow any air thru the exhaust manifold using a blow gun and rag. Got some fittings to seal up tight and it took a bit more then 100 psi to blow thru it. There was a white color crystal which came out of the exhaust manifold. Only thing we could think of is this is RV stuff which turned to gel and crystalized. The inner cooler (SS) was good but the manifold (Aluminum) was not. Thinking that it was react with the manifold.

The Seadoo manual states to add 4 oz of full strength glycol antifreeze in the manifold. So the issue comes from using RV stuff.

Any others hear of this kind of thing?

 

[QBhoy]

New to me AD...seems a strange one right enough.
You might assume that if he exhaust was blocked in such a way...it might effect the normal running order in the season ?
In any case...you are no newbie to all this kind of stuff...the basics remain....if it has its own Internal cooling system...make sure the mix is right with a hydrometer and make sure the SW side is well flushed through and empty. I'm sure you know anyway...

 

[Scott Danforth]

Could have been an interaction with the PG and aluminum. Most RV antifreeze does not have corrosion inhibitors

 

[alldodge]

The model uses Ethylene glycol thru the motor (closed cooling) and uses raw water going thru the super charger, inner cooler and exhaust. The heat exchanger is located a plate under the water craft. Another reason I like 4 strokers

On another forum they may have found the answer. If the RV stuff used probably had alcohol in it, and maybe a lot of it. The alcohol may have reacted with the aluminum manifold and caused the issue. Some of the newer stuff (-100 F) indicates its safe for aluminum, brass and such

http://www.michiganmotorz.com/starbr...hoCEZwQAvD_BwE

Edit: Howdy Scott: looks like your on to something

 

[oldjeep]

RV stuff - like what you use in toilets? You want to be using a marine antifreeze specifically designed for engines.

 

[alldodge]

RV stuff - like what you use in toilets? You want to be using a marine antifreeze specifically designed for engines.

Nope, I say RV because its easier then saying RV & Marine Antifreeze, Propylene glycol

 

[oldjeep]

Nope, I say RV because its easier then saying RV & Marine Antifreeze, Propylene glycol

Even the toilet stuff has Propenene glycol in it. RV& Marine doesn't mean it is good for engines unless it says it is. What specifically did you use?

 

[alldodge]

Even the toilet stuff has Propenene glycol in it. RV& Marine doesn't mean it is good for engines unless it says it is. What specifically did you use?

The pink stuff you pick up every where, the -50 stuff. What we believe happened is the stuff which was used had more alcohol then normal and it reacted with the aluminum manifold.

 

[oldjeep]

The pink stuff you pick up every where, the -50 stuff. What we believe happened is the stuff which was used had more alcohol then normal and it reacted with the aluminum manifold.

Yup - toilet water
--For potable water plumbing systems in RVs, boats, pools and vacation homes

No where on that does it say it is for engine protection

Try this stuff next time
http://www.starbrite.com/item/winter-safe-50f

 

[alldodge]

Good point, and even though it appears everyone is using it for motors and winterization, it will be another reason not to use antifreeze during at all. A gallon of premix engine AF is around $30, and I don't see many willing to spend $100 just for that part of it. Now in a PWC my buddy will be using regular auto AF from here on out unless something cheaper comes around.

 

[dwco5051]

Could have been an interaction with the PG and aluminum. Most RV antifreeze does not have corrosion inhibitors

Scott was spot on.

Interesting web page from a company that makes both types;

http://cul-mac.com/products/automotive/non-toxic-propylene-glycol-antifreeze-products/

I noticed that the antifreeze for marine engines specifically says contains corrosion inhibitors. The advantage of propylene glycol is that it is not-toxic

 

[oldjeep]

Good point, and even though it appears everyone is using it for motors and winterization, it will be another reason not to use antifreeze during at all. A gallon of premix engine AF is around $30, and I don't see many willing to spend $100 just for that part of it. Now in a PWC my buddy will be using regular auto AF from here on out unless something cheaper comes around.

$100 what are you talking about? The starbrite is about $6 a gallon

 

[alldodge]

$100 what are you talking about? The starbrite is about $6 a gallon

I don't use any Poly antifreeze in any equipment including my PWC, only use Ethylene in marine equipment. This conversation is about my friends PWC. After finding that the cheap crud can mess up his motor, spending a few more doesn't give a warm fuzzy, even if it is under 10. Found one site at 6 plus shipping and most are more.

https://www.amazon.com/Star-Brite-Anti-31500/dp/B0064N265E

This stuff would be used

https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn...n5ac8-Df0MJNG48uTaykN-uGAlp9MR14aAlBkEALw_wcB

Hopefully we can figure out a way to empty everything and not use anything except maybe the 4 oz of EG in the PWC manifold

 

[oldjeep]

I don't use any Poly antifreeze in any equipment including my PWC, only use Ethylene in marine equipment. This conversation is about my friends PWC. After finding that the cheap crud can mess up his motor, spending a few more doesn't give a warm fuzzy, even if it is under 10. Found one site at 6 plus shipping and most are more.

https://www.amazon.com/Star-Brite-Anti-31500/dp/B0064N265E

This stuff would be used

https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn...n5ac8-Df0MJNG48uTaykN-uGAlp9MR14aAlBkEALw_wcB

Hopefully we can figure out a way to empty everything and not use anything except maybe the 4 oz of EG in the PWC manifold

I still have no idea what you are talking about, as you have linked to Sierra which is just another marine engine PG antifreeze but good luck with it.

 

[dingbat]

There is no alcohol in propylene glycol.

What you experience is the result of using a uninhabited glycol solution in a cooling system. Learned the lesson many years ago when filling a chiller for overseas shipment years back.

Glycol (propylene and ethylene) has a high ph naturally. In the presence of a number or organic compounds it become quite acidic and corrosive. The use of an inhibitor keeps the acidity down to a minimum.

 

[JimS123]

I don't use any Poly antifreeze in any equipment including my PWC, only use Ethylene in marine equipment. This conversation is about my friends PWC. After finding that the cheap crud can mess up his motor, spending a few more doesn't give a warm fuzzy, even if it is under 10. Found one site at 6 plus shipping and most are more.

https://www.amazon.com/Star-Brite-Anti-31500/dp/B0064N265E

This stuff would be used

https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn...n5ac8-Df0MJNG48uTaykN-uGAlp9MR14aAlBkEALw_wcB

Hopefully we can figure out a way to empty everything and not use anything except maybe the 4 oz of EG in the PWC manifold

I winterize by draining the water, and then adding anti-freeze. I won't debate the merits - that's just what I do. 34 seasons on an I/O and no cracked block yet. Maybe its overkill, but its not short changing either.

My old S-D GTX 2-stroke required pulling off a hose and pouring in antifreeze. However, since then we have owned several 4-TECs, both NA and SCs and none ever called for anti-freeze since they were self-draining. Is the RXT that much different? Regardless, never had a funky buildup.

The way I see it the Star-Brite is for winterizing. In the Spring drain and go.
The MSC product is a "coolant", meaning for closed systems. You don't drain it, you keep it there all season long. That would explain the price difference.

In the old days I DID use ethylene. In the Spring I ran on muffs and let her go down the driveway. Then, I switched to propylene. It's been in my block every year for about 15 years now and its come out bright pink every Spring. Seems to me something else is going on there.

 

[alldodge]

However, since then we have owned several 4-TECs, both NA and SCs and none ever called for anti-freeze since they were self-draining. Is the RXT that much different? Regardless, never had a funky buildup.

Suggest you need to read the owners manual a tad bit better, OR maybe you happen to have owned SEVERAL which are different then others
This is from the 2007 manual

 

[oldjeep]

Suggest you need to read the owners manual a tad bit better, OR maybe you happen to have owned SEVERAL which are different then others
This is from the 2007 manual

Guess we have gotten lucky I've never done that with our 2004 RXP (assuming it applies). Just fire it up to blow and steam all the water out of it and park it for 6 months. Gets down to -20F some years and haven't had an issue yet.

 

[JimS123]

Suggest you need to read the owners manual a tad bit better, OR maybe you happen to have owned SEVERAL which are different then others
This is from the 2007 manual

I asked if the RXT is that different. I guess you answered that question.

I have the $80 BRP shop manuals for the NA GTX and the subsequent Supercharged GTX. They both say that the cooling system is self-draining, but recommend changing / testing the anti-freeze in the closed system to be sure it is above anticipated freeze temps. No other AF is needed.

So, I would guess that the intercooler is the fly in the ointment here.

OTOH, after owning 4 S-Ds over a 20+ year period, last year we traded for a Yami FXHO Cruiser. Holy Crap! What a difference. Like comparing a Chevy to Ferrari.

 

[alldodge]

I have the $80 BRP shop manuals for the NA GTX and the subsequent Supercharged GTX. They both say that the cooling system is self-draining, but recommend changing / testing the anti-freeze in the closed system to be sure it is above anticipated freeze temps. No other AF is needed.

Maybe were getting off on the wrong issue. Your talking cooling system and I'm talking raw water cooling system. To me the cooling system you mentioned is the self contained radiator type system (closed system). I'm talking about the raw water which is drawn in to cool the exhaust system and intercooler.

The manual shown deals with SC, NA and intercoolers. Don't know what year your Doo was but that to can be looked up and verified. All of the manuals say the exhaust is self draining (Note words under "supercharged intercooled models" post 17) but have exceptions (again note words). The main issue again, is the cast aluminum exhaust manifold clogged up from the wrong kind of antifreeze being pumped in. Might also concern the intercooler but have yet to verify

First post, indicates RXT which came with a SC and IC but has been modified (the Riva systems is a larger SC, IC, Ex and injectors)

PWC is a Seadoo RXT 4-Tec which has been modified with a Riva performance system (larger injectors, inner cooler, sea strainer, supercharger, exhaust).

Glad your happy with a Yam and hope it gives you a lot of happy times.