Turning Point Cleaver

Texasmark

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Dec 20, 2005
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Been diddling with props on my newly acquired 2002 rig. Since alum props are running less than a hundred bucks and I like TP props, and I found out that my 3 blade 17 put me into the "overrev limiter", I decided to try a 4 blade 17 since I never had a 4 blade and being a senior now, cruising speeds are more to my liking. WOW. What a mindset. Firewall that sucker and you had better have on a neck brace! The TP 4 blade is a "Swept Cleaver" and a badass prop for thrust. Well it put me in the limiter too because it did as they advertise, give you the thrust without the normal 3-4 blade speed limitation. So, by Thursday I should be getting my 4 blade 19 in the mail. When they advertise increased reverse thrust, backing off the trailer it's obvious......iboats sells TP along with other brands.
 

jimmbo

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May 24, 2004
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Just inspect the Prop, i have found many TP props having unintended varying of blade shape/rake
 

Texasmark

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I got my 19P yesterday so I put it against the 17 and the main difference is the emergence at the front of the blade root. The pickup of 2" in pitch is there. The rest is variable pitch with the rake and cupping is aggressive at the very tip, not gradual like other cupped props I have/have had.
 

jimmbo

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May 24, 2004
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I got my 19P yesterday so I put it against the 17 and the main difference is the emergence at the front of the blade root. The pickup of 2" in pitch is there. The rest is variable pitch with the rake and cupping is aggressive at the very tip, not gradual like other cupped props I have/have had.

I've seen that line/model of Prop. I haven't run one. So I can't praise/criticize it it.
However I still recommend running one's finger down the back/front of each blade to feel for a Contour Variance between the blades
 

Chris1956

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Mar 25, 2004
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The TP Swept Cleaver prop indicates that it only fits motors with 4.25" hubs. That means no Merc V6 applications.

Is that right?
 

Scott06

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I decided to try a 4 blade 17 since I never had a 4 blade and being a senior now, cruising speeds are more to my liking. WOW. What a mindset. Firewall that sucker and you had better have on a neck brace!

Agreed on the four blade, tried one about 7-8 years ago as a way to get better skiing performance on a 3.0 powered boat. A realatuvely cheap aluminum 4 blade performed better in 90% of how I use my boat that's all I've run since then on that boat and my newer boat.
 

Bikestdy

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Feb 20, 2018
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I also agree, I tried a TP 4bl several years ago for the first time and it was the best thing. My boat runs smoother than it ever had, pulls harder and handles better. I was thoroughly impressed with it. I had done a lot of checking around and had several tell me a 4bl would the best being that I use it mostly for water sports. The boat had been my parents and before I got it, when my dad drove it and skied behind it he was also blown away at the difference a 4bl made, he said it was a like a different boat.
 

Texasmark

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Dec 20, 2005
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The TP Swept Cleaver prop indicates that it only fits motors with 4.25" hubs. That means no Merc V6 applications.

Is that right?

I was thinking the 115 2 stroke 4 cyl looper is on a 4" diam. box turing 13" wheels. Surely TP makes that prop for the higher hp gearboxes....4.25 turning 14" wheels ??? You might look them up on this site as Iboats sells the TP props. Otherwise ebay works just fine.
 

Texasmark

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Got it out today and it ran good. Hole shot at half throttle is in the low single digit numbers. Firewall it and hang onto your seat. I did plug the port holes in the prop as I have the 115 2+2 and at mid rpms, I have enough going on but even without the holes the shot was more than ample. WOT
got me to 44 ½ at 5k if I eased into it but if I got on it to get there I got ventilation.

Currently its jacked up one hole off the transom and looking over my shoulder at max trim and max throttle, I can see the AV plate rear 2/3s (transom blocks my view to see any more) is well out of the slipstream. Since the Crestliner has a 12* dead rise at the transom and a goodly amount of keel, looks like I will need to set her back on the transom.....where the Crestliner designers designed the engine to sit.........daaaaaaaa!

Good part of this is that my bow lift is dependent on thrust angle and prop rake currently. If I can get all the AV plate in the slipstream, I can get better control over the bow lift at max trim and should reduce my wetted area.....as I have proven on my Ranger BB with it's pad. This should compensate for any drag losses with it sitting lower. We'll see.

In short, I'll use it.
 

Texasmark

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Get the popcorn and a cold beer!

Bought this 2002 year model boat from a dealer. Who knows what the PO (old man...like me....I'm told) had for setup or what happened to the boat at the dealers from the time it was traded till I drove out with it but:
The boat is a 2002 Crestliner Fish Hawk 1750.
Engine 2002 Merc 115 2+2 2 stroke. Compression was 129 3 places and 131 on #4.....wink!
Prop was a Ballistic SS 22P
Engine height was 4th hole up off transom.
Farina tach inop.

First time out I punched it out of the no wake zone and it didn't get even want to try to get on plane....daaaaa somebody been messin with the recipe!

Fast forward,
New Farina tach. Setup at low speed on muffs and checked the Farina readout with a digital tach I use for machine work and it was real close.
Tossed the 22P and started with TPH 19 3 blade. Looked like I was overloading as rpms would barely hit the 4750 low end of the WOT number.
Overloading, ok bought a 3 blade 17. Performance didn't hardly change.....daaaa somebody been messin with the recipe. Now this was on the same rig that I bought with a 22P SS Ballistic. I have run the Ballistic 24P on my last boat so I know how that prop runs.
Checking things I find that the throttle advance set screw lock nut was loose and the throttle linkage stop screw had vibrated out of position such that the throttle linkage couldn't rotate far enough to fully engage the bottom two cylinders.
Whipped out the manual and got that fixed.
Thought I'd try the 4 bladeTPH 17P as I wanted to do a lot of mid range running....about 3k rpm, 25 mph give or take range. Ran up to test the WOT rpms and it hit the rev limiter......daaaaa that's more like it. Hole shot and acceleration were more than ample and did a great job of holding the 25ish range.
Finally put on the 19P TPH4 and that solved the over rev limiter but I had blow out problems when running at ¾ throttle to firewall if I did it fast. If I advanced slowly it'd take it and everything was where I wanted it.

So, yesterday I dropped it down to the first hole, clamp bracket on the transom and that's where it'll stay.
 

Texasmark

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Will do. One of the things lacking on this forum is feedback from folks when there is information to be had by others on what works and what doesn't....good ideas and wastes of your time. Somebody has a problem, folks chime in on solutions and you never hear from the poster again....not everybody but enough to feel it to be lack of common courtesy and appreciation for the FREE assistance. I don't want to be in that category.

As soon as we get weather warmed up a few degrees (29F last nigh) and the wind isn't howling out of the NW, I'll be back on it.
I'm expecting a loss of a couple mph with the lowering due to LU drag increase.

I'm expecting to be running around 25 mph at around 3k rpm, trimmed out maybe 10* (Merc advertising their trim range 20*), my desired cruising/rough water sweet spot and punch it and it not blow out, picking up the rest of the advertised 20* trim range as speed increases.

I'm thinking that, similar to other boats I have run, having the AV plate where it now will be, in the water rather than out as it was, I can use it as an effective wedge against clear oncoming water to force the bow up higher, (which thrust angle alone hasn't done for me in the past when the AV plate was in the air) thus reducing the wetted area of the hull, thus reducing the hull drag which far exceeds the extra ¾" of LU drag, and thus overcoming the speed and RPM loss anticipated with the lowering......and possibly increasing both. Have done it before. We'll see.

Footnote: Forcing the bow higher at 40+ mph is totally different from where the bow sits (up) and where you want it to go (down) when a boat is under/at/barely on plane....15-20 mph depending on the rig. Can be confusing to some folks getting their feet wet. And I'm not a professional racer running a high powered mil on a bullet hull, ocean racing or 3 pt hydroplanes. Just a guy running the rigs mostly discussed herein and seeing what can be done with a few bucks and stock equipment available at an affordable price.
 
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QBhoy

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Mar 10, 2016
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Those ballistics are quick on the right boat...but even then, not all of the time. Almost as quick as an enertia when conditions are right. But not consistently enough. Always terrible out the hole. Need to be slightly surfacing too.
 

Texasmark

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Dec 20, 2005
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Well done! Please report the numbers after your next outing.

Well I got back out yesterday. Wind light and variable, 6ish inch chop, 60F a bit cooler than last outing which obviously added to the performance a bit. Results of dropping to the last hole, didn't change the blowout previously experienced when throttle was hammered at a good planing speed and moderate to max trim. 115 HP is the max rated for this boat and is way more than the boat, lightly loaded, needs to perform. Tight turns at mid speed and RPMs were solid. But slowly (taking a few seconds) to advance the throttle and trim from 30ish, it remained locked and boat responded vividly.

What did happen (as I see it) was that since the AV plate was now fully under the water at max trim...I could look over my shoulder and couldn't see the back half as before, having better leverage, it brought the bow up more, wetted area lessened (bow wake started at the rear corners of the transom.....Hull has 12* dead rise at the transom and reverse chines) and I gained 4 mph from the last time out......dropping the engine ¾" where you'd expect to loose speed due to more LU in the water and more drag. I did mention that I suspected it might happen and it did, as I said before, getting the AV plate under the clear water gave me a better lever (thrust angle plus water pressure lever), making the trim angle more responsive and since I had the HP and was up to speed for it to work, which it did in giving me more bow lift, less hull in the water, less drag, and more speed.

But this boat isn't about speed and I'm not an ocean racer with a "Go-Fast" boat or any of that. It's about riding comfort for a senior guy with a boat that he can handle alone that tolerates pretty good chop. All this foolishness is just to find out where I really am with the setup on a 17 year old freshly purchased boat.

So now I am going to put my 17P 4 blade back on and enjoy my rig riding at a comfortable 20-25 mph.
 

Texasmark

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So, Friday looked to be a good day. Had my engine down on the transom and the 4 blade 17p installed. When the time came I hammered down on it and experienced the problems I had earlier only worse.....I wasn't having ventilation problems that I felt just couldn't be, understanding the circumstances, the engine was actually GASPING for fuel.

The old fuel filter that I had been looking at since making the purchase, appearing to be original OEM when manufactured, looked mighty suspect....I had looked at and thought about changing it out but it was hard to get to and I didn't think (little did I know) I was having fuel problems.

So, when I got home and got everything put up, I popped the bonnet and figuring how to get it out, got it out. First thing I did was check the flow direction, washed the inlet end good with soap and water and put it in my mouth...............I couldn't blow through it......smoking gun big time. New one is on it's way.

Moral of this story is don't take anything for granted and be careful when you make an accusation, be sure of your references!🙄

So now, backing into all the prop and engine changing I did, just how much of that was unnecessary and wouldn't have happened had I played my first hunch and just changed it out for good measure.....not knowing the history of the engine.

Food for thought.
 
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