The truth about Zodiac's PVC Fabric

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zwapp420

Cadet
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
18
Hi everyone,

After reading some of the posts on this website, I thought I'd sign up and help out where I can. I've been in the inflatable industry for about 10 years now, 7 of which I worked directly for Zodiac. The ' Strongan ' name is used because it is different than all other pvc's in the market. Difference is that Zodiac has 2 threads inside the fabric....1 running longitudinal in the tube and the other running horizontal....which is why you may see the ' Duotex ' word in their catalogues. Almost all other pvc's in the industry have the single thread between the layers of fabric. The dual thread reduces the bendability in the tube when on the water. I have seen some comments about the thickness of fabrics. The thicker the fabric does not mean it is more durable...if anything, it is harder to work with when doing repairs. What counts in any brand of inflatable's fabric, is what is inside the fabric.

I've done several repairs to inflatables, rigged up quite a few, and have seen brand names come and go over the years but if anyone has a question to ask me, please feel free here to ask and I will do my best to help out with my comments, concerns and opinions.

Cheers.
 

megaxyu

Recruit
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
5
Re: The truth about Zodiac's PVC Fabric

Hi,

I think I'm going to take you up on your offer and ask if you had any experience with the Saturn brand as far as durability and service life are concerned
 

Peter_C

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
193
Re: The truth about Zodiac's PVC Fabric

I have a 1992 Zodiac Futura MKII Sport GT (What a long name). The glue failed on the boat as it was stored in a hot location, but under a tree and a fabric cover. I removed the transom and floor and reglued everything back in. So far no issues with my repair. As I understand the thermobonded tubes rarely fail? Any idea what the life expectancy of the PVC is? I have started to see tiny cracks around the very back of the speed tubes, and had one fail due to too much weight on it while on the beach. The tube has since been repaired with a small patch at the rear seam.

Is there any other info you could share on my specific boat? Any idea what the top speed should be with a 2 stroke 40hp?
 

zwapp420

Cadet
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
18
Re: The truth about Zodiac's PVC Fabric

Hi,

I think I'm going to take you up on your offer and ask if you had any experience with the Saturn brand as far as durability and service life are concerned

Hi there, I don't have much experience with those boats although I have heard good things about them. The life expectancy of a pvc boat should be 10 years minimum, longer if taken well care of.
 

zwapp420

Cadet
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
18
Re: The truth about Zodiac's PVC Fabric

I have a 1992 Zodiac Futura MKII Sport GT (What a long name). The glue failed on the boat as it was stored in a hot location, but under a tree and a fabric cover. I removed the transom and floor and reglued everything back in. So far no issues with my repair. As I understand the thermobonded tubes rarely fail? Any idea what the life expectancy of the PVC is? I have started to see tiny cracks around the very back of the speed tubes, and had one fail due to too much weight on it while on the beach. The tube has since been repaired with a small patch at the rear seam.

Is there any other info you could share on my specific boat? Any idea what the top speed should be with a 2 stroke 40hp?

The thermobonded seams are the strongest point on the tubes and should never come apart! I do know that the mid 90's zodiacs have a good chance of having the floor and or transom attachments come unglued. It is unfortunate however the new models are all welded in place.

With a 40HP motor on that boat you will fly! Probably getting upwards of 45mph...which is pretty quick considering the boat only weighs about 200lbs. Nice to hear you got the transom back in place!
 

Peter_C

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
193
Re: The truth about Zodiac's PVC Fabric

Zwapp420, my boat doesn't go nearly 45 mph, more like 28 mph with one person and only in choppy water. The prop should probably be replaced, as it has been dinged. It has a 2 stroke Evinrude. Any recommendations? Composite vs aluminum? Don't want stainless. Adjustable prop vs two speed vs fixed? The challenge I have is we scuba dive from it with hundreds of pounds of gear.
 

BonairII

Commander
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Messages
2,727
Re: The truth about Zodiac's PVC Fabric

Only way to prop it correctly is have a tach (tinytach or some kind of portable tach) to get correct rpm. Guessing the correct prop is useless.
 

zwapp420

Cadet
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
18
Re: The truth about Zodiac's PVC Fabric

If you are using the boat for diving with a couple people and a couple hundred pounds of gear, of course you won't get top speed. If you go with a higher pitched prop, you will get out of the hole faster but you will lose on top speed and vice versa, lower pitch, higher speed. Definitely replace your prop, or take it to a shop who can fix it as those dings will reflect on performance.
 

jeffb9

Recruit
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Messages
1
Re: The truth about Zodiac's PVC Fabric

I have one of the unfortunate "mid 90's" (about 96 I think) that the floor came unglued last year, so I got about 6 years on it (light use, stored alot). The place that sold me the glue to repair it (2 part glue - $70/pint) said that this is the same glue the factory used for the floor. So this means that I will get about another 6 years before it comes unglued again. Is that true?

Also, has anybody come up with a way to "weld" the floor seam to the tubes using some kind of portable plastic welding.

Thanks
 

TOHATSU GURU

Admiral
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Messages
6,164
Re: The truth about Zodiac's PVC Fabric

More like two years when you reglue it yourself and no, none is doing thermobonding on inflatable repair. We do have a couple of thermobonders that we use with liferafts, but the material on an inflatable is much to thick. Also, PVC boats are so cheap that after 8 to 10 years you are better off dumping it anyway.
 

TOHATSU GURU

Admiral
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Messages
6,164
Re: The truth about Zodiac's PVC Fabric

Hi everyone,

After reading some of the posts on this website, I thought I'd sign up and help out where I can. I've been in the inflatable industry for about 10 years now, 7 of which I worked directly for Zodiac. The ' Strongan ' name is used because it is different than all other pvc's in the market. Difference is that Zodiac has 2 threads inside the fabric....1 running longitudinal in the tube and the other running horizontal....which is why you may see the ' Duotex ' word in their catalogues. Almost all other pvc's in the industry have the single thread between the layers of fabric. The dual thread reduces the bendability in the tube when on the water. I have seen some comments about the thickness of fabrics. The thicker the fabric does not mean it is more durable...if anything, it is harder to work with when doing repairs. What counts in any brand of inflatable's fabric, is what is inside the fabric.

I've done several repairs to inflatables, rigged up quite a few, and have seen brand names come and go over the years but if anyone has a question to ask me, please feel free here to ask and I will do my best to help out with my comments, concerns and opinions.

Cheers.

Did you work for ZNA or did you work in France or Morocco?
 

TOHATSU GURU

Admiral
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Messages
6,164
Re: The truth about Zodiac's PVC Fabric

Do I know you? I think I know/knew everyone on the Rec and MilPro side.
 

dazk14

Ensign
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
966
Re: The truth about Zodiac's PVC Fabric

If you are using the boat for diving with a couple people and a couple hundred pounds of gear, of course you won't get top speed. If you go with a higher pitched prop, you will get out of the hole faster but you will lose on top speed and vice versa, lower pitch, higher speed. Definitely replace your prop, or take it to a shop who can fix it as those dings will reflect on performance.

Since you're in the business, how about taking another crack at that...
 

TOHATSU GURU

Admiral
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Messages
6,164
Re: The truth about Zodiac's PVC Fabric

He got it backwards, but anyone can make a mistake:)
 

dazk14

Ensign
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
966
Re: The truth about Zodiac's PVC Fabric

He got it backwards, but anyone can make a mistake:)

Just a little Voir dire... TG, I'll accept your ruling on the matter...and zwapp, please accept my apologies, sometimes us old Dealers get Crabbie...
 

nobrainsd

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
230
Re: The truth about Zodiac's PVC Fabric

TG is always quick to say that you should just trash an older PVC boat and move on. That might be an economically justifiable stance considering the amount of time involved to reglue the floor seams and transom, but I repaired my 90's Futura in 2006 and it is still running out over head high waves to surf and towing hydrofoilers and wakeboarders on the bay without any signs of coming apart. I had the time, developed the skills and have enjoyed years of use after repairing the inflatable. I seriously doubt that there are many other owners who regularly put their boat through the stresses that I do. Two years lifespan on a repair? Maybe if you don't watch the environmental conditions and use acetone instead of MEK to prep!
 

cledus

Cadet
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
16
Re: The truth about Zodiac's PVC Fabric

Despite what some people are inclined to tell you a PVC boat will last a long time if properly taken care of. I currently have three Zodiac brand inflatables. One is a 1987 cadet which is in near showroom condition, a 1998 Futura, and a 1989 Zodiac Pro 530. I just replaced the tubes on the 530 not due to any failure of the product itself but rather a failure on the part of the previous owner. They decided to attempt to fill the tubes with expanding foam and found out the hard way that it just does not work the way most people think it would. If you take care of your boat and operate it at the proper pressure you should have no issue gettting more the the predicted 8-10 years out of it as long as it is a well built boat.
As far as some of these cheap Asian built boats go, who knows how long they'll last !
 

Sea Rider

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
12,345
Re: The truth about Zodiac's PVC Fabric

No issues with pvc fabrics as most are now Korean or German good quality fabrics, stay put or become unglued will depend solely on the quality of the glue, hardener and it's provenance; it's exposure to the environments, top air pressure when boating and properly cared for.

Happy Boating
 

TOHATSU GURU

Admiral
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Messages
6,164
Re: The truth about Zodiac's PVC Fabric

TG is always quick to say that you should just trash an older PVC boat and move on. That might be an economically justifiable stance considering the amount of time involved to reglue the floor seams and transom, but I repaired my 90's Futura in 2006 and it is still running out over head high waves to surf and towing hydrofoilers and wakeboarders on the bay without any signs of coming apart. I had the time, developed the skills and have enjoyed years of use after repairing the inflatable. I seriously doubt that there are many other owners who regularly put their boat through the stresses that I do. Two years lifespan on a repair? Maybe if you don't watch the environmental conditions and use acetone instead of MEK to prep!

All that's true. But, my feelings are based on lots of experience. PVC boats have a place in the market. But, people need to be informed about their pitfalls. Generally the people who I run into, have been told they are the "best", I will leave the well known name out of it. From an economic point of view you can make a case for PVC. I do it everyday when I sell a PVC fabric boat to someone. But, I tell them they have an 8 to 10 year service life here or up to 15 years up north. Hypalon will last 20 to 30 years. So, fixing a 10 year old PVC fabric boat is not usually cost effective based on what it is worth after it has been repaired. For example. A 10 year old brand X PVC boat is worth about $200.00 due to it being at the end of it's service life. It just is not cost effective to sink $200.00 into it for a repair when something else is going to be falling off of it next month. As far as the life of a repair...People who repair their own PVC boats average less than a year on the repair holding. Usually due to inadequate prep or poor climate control. A decent repair facility can get 5 or more years on a repair most of the time.


So, am I quick to tell people to throw their PVC junk in the dumpster? Yes. Is it because I don't like PVC boats? No, I love PVC boats. Do I think people are capable of correctly repairing their own PVC boats? Nope, you should see the horrible attempts at home repair that I get to look at each week. Is it possible that a consumer with no training can do a repair and have it hold? Yes. Is that likely? No.


So, in general, my advice on PVC and what people should do with it sound. But, does it hold true in every case? No. Anyone who is willing to follow the instructions, have the right environment and take their time could do a repair that can last. It's just my experience that people fail on one or more of those necessities.
 
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