No Wake vs. 5 mph Buoy and BAD Encounter w/ Sheriff

[rallyart]

Re: No Wake vs. 5 mph Buoy and BAD Encounter w/ Sheriff

So, assuming you were in you SeaRay 220, your displacement speed is about 6mph and you plane at about 19mph and your biggest wake would be at about 10-12 mph. (Just guesses from experience) If you were traveling above 'nowake' but not planing, as you state, I'm guessing you were making a pretty big wake and might have missed the intent of the 5mph buoy markers. Probably that is why you were pulled over.
The officer is required to be responsible for his vehicle, just like anyone, within the limits of being able to do his job so you might have a claim for damage. You might be able to fight a citation that is incorrectly marked as most common law would support that you need to be reasonably informed as to what the citation is for so you can defend against it.

As you asked for opinions from us with limited knowledge I'll give you mine. You were in the wrong. Threatening to call the USCG might show an attitude also. It's too bad your boat was damaged and I hope that they would help fix it if they caused the damage through negligence. If there was no negligence then you might not have a remedy for that.

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: No Wake vs. 5 mph Buoy and BAD Encounter w/ Sheriff

From the outside looking in.

Cop doesn't know you. You have the high ground. There been drunks, drugs and all the normal stuff going on in the area.You said last night which could be dusk or late evening. You act upset.

Cop doesn't want to take his eyes of you or let down his guard which includes throwing out his fender. Cop doesn't want you to move out of his site as you have the high ground so he can not see everything you are doing thus he doesn't want you throwing your fenders out. Did he put his foot out to try to stop the boats contacting which is unsafe but was probably done to protect your boat with out him taking his eyes off you.

Its a sorry world we live in and we are not the ones looking at the darker side most nights.

Hope they put any damage right.

Our local water cop's use rigid inflatables so im not sure if they would leave a mark.

 

[Begester]

Re: No Wake vs. 5 mph Buoy and BAD Encounter w/ Sheriff

PEZ - your exactly right, and you've spot on hit on why I started the post.

I requested clarification from people on this site as to the difference between no wake and 5 mph...and in talking with the USCG in Washington state (this afternoon) 5mph is not enforced by USCG; at least in my area. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong on that part. My 2nd (and more important) question revolved around dealing with a LEO who MAY be overstepping his bounds. From some of the responses here, I'm not the only one who has been in this situation.

I will say that when I threatened to call the USCG, the officer's tone changed quite a bit. I said that because I had a legitimate concern for the safety of myself and passengers. I've been given courtesy checks several times in my years of boating, each time has ended with a handshake and "thank you." I have never received a ticket.

Well said Don S, glenn, and others. I wasnt trying to hang the LEO out to dry, hopefully it didnt come out that way.

 

[crabby captain john]

Re: No Wake vs. 5 mph Buoy and BAD Encounter w/ Sheriff

My boat is only 21' but is heavy. At 5 mph I'm making a wake. "over 5 mph but not on plane" indicates both over the speed limit (local) and making a wake. Just my .02 as the locals here would stop you too thankfully. If it were while going under a bridge-- ticket almost guaranteed.

 

[soggy_feet]

Re: No Wake vs. 5 mph Buoy and BAD Encounter w/ Sheriff

Honest question...


What exactly constitutes a wake? At what point does it go from being a ripple to a wake?

Capn John's comment got me thinking when he said his boat is heavy and at 5mph he's making a wake.

My boat, I'm estimating to be about 15,000lbs, but it's long and narrow with little draft, like a canoe. Going from memory from last season, I'm gonna say that it probably takes 10mph or more to actually get the water churning at the bow.

I've always figured that to be wake speed. Once you stop slicing thru the water and you start churning it, then you've broken past the no-wake speed (for the boat... not the law)

 

[H20Rat]

Re: No Wake vs. 5 mph Buoy and BAD Encounter w/ Sheriff

So in my experience, sherrifs/police are by far the WORST law enforcement officials to be on the water. They are not 'boat people', they are some guy who may have had ZERO on the water experience, and took a quick course to be certified to be a water patrol.

I've personally seen my local officials do everything a newbie boater would do, from not able to back, to not putting the plug in. I've seen them hung up on very obvious sandbars, and even run out of gas more than once. Local sheriffs also love to powerload, despite the sign saying it is illegal. I have no doubts they have no idea what powerloading even is! (game wardens/USCG on the other hand are generally outdoors type people, and grew up on a boat.)

 

[crabby captain john]

Re: No Wake vs. 5 mph Buoy and BAD Encounter w/ Sheriff

Soggy -- A ripple is not a wake and you are correct, diff hulls create a wake a diff speeds. The area of the OP has two ways to be had, make a wake and fair game for all fed, state, local LE, over 5 mph by local radar and they get you. WAY, way back when I received my 1st USCG license we were told ALL bridges were a no wake zone even if not posted as such. Never saw that written anywhere. People are getting written for that the past 2 years. Still have not found it in writing but tickets are being held up when challenged. Going to have to look at court records I guess....

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: No Wake vs. 5 mph Buoy and BAD Encounter w/ Sheriff

having read this entire thread I believe you were going way too fast and were thus in the wrong... I suspect that the deputy may have been unprepared for tying up as He should have had fenders out ahead of time... then again you maybe should have tossed yours out asap when he showed up.... I suspect since you have paperwork in hand that he untied you because he was finished with you and not because you threatened him w coast guard.... the coast guard would have been his backup and would not have interfered with his stop.

You asked for opinions and that is mine... happy boating and slow down next time..... for all intents and purposes 5 mph and no wake can be treated as the same but 5 mph is easier to enforce with a radar gun..... set engine(s) at idle when passing any of those signs.

 

[crabby captain john]

Re: No Wake vs. 5 mph Buoy and BAD Encounter w/ Sheriff

Have not seen our local police on the water much. Local sheriff is on the water a lot! They are courteous, helpful and knowledgeable. Could be as they are on the water all year unlike in the tundra states. Correct- the DNR guys are good. USCG & Aux are good too. Now-- if only the tourists would think a little as vacation does not mean giving up common sense.

So in my experience, sherrifs/police are by far the WORST law enforcement officials to be on the water. They are not 'boat people', they are some guy who may have had ZERO on the water experience, and took a quick course to be certified to be a water patrol.

I've personally seen my local officials do everything a newbie boater would do, from not able to back, to not putting the plug in. I've seen them hung up on very obvious sandbars, and even run out of gas more than once. Local sheriffs also love to powerload, despite the sign saying it is illegal. I have no doubts they have no idea what powerloading even is! (game wardens/USCG on the other hand are generally outdoors type people, and grew up on a boat.)

 

[25thmustang]

Re: No Wake vs. 5 mph Buoy and BAD Encounter w/ Sheriff

Plowing water isn't a guarantee but if your above idle but below plane, you run the risk of plowing water and throwing a big wake.

 

[foodfisher]

Re: No Wake vs. 5 mph Buoy and BAD Encounter w/ Sheriff

Folks, we're loosing our language. I think "it depends on what is is", was the catalist, "No wake zones" may prohibit wakes in marinas, near moorings and within some distance of shore[1] in order to facilitate recreation by other boats, and reduce the damage wakes cause. Powered narrowboats on British canals are not permitted to create a breaking wash (a wake large enough to create a breaking wave) along the banks, as this erodes them. This rule normally restricts these vessels to 4 statute miles per hour or less.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: No Wake vs. 5 mph Buoy and BAD Encounter w/ Sheriff

Again, "no wake" speed is pretty much accepted that it's the lowest speed that allows you to maintain direction control of the vessel. So you are able to move at a forward speed high enough to where your steering is functional. This speed will be slightly different for every boat/outdrive type. However, the all typically fall between 4-7mph, so 5 mph is sort of a "guideline" than a rule. I would imagine that a "wake" is somewhat subjective but likely falls under the category of porn: you know it when you see it.

 

[Thalasso]

Re: No Wake vs. 5 mph Buoy and BAD Encounter w/ Sheriff

The definition of no wake varies by state. In NH, it's called "headway speed" and is defined as up to 6 MPH or the slowest the boat will go and maintain steerage. If you are at idle speed and exceeding 6 MPH in NH, you are not breaking the law.

That is the law anywhere, period. Your speed is what ever it is to keep steerage

 

[Thalasso]

Re: No Wake vs. 5 mph Buoy and BAD Encounter w/ Sheriff

Folks, we're loosing our language. I think "it depends on what is is", was the catalist, "No wake zones" may prohibit wakes in marinas, near moorings and within some distance of shore[1] in order to facilitate recreation by other boats, and reduce the damage wakes cause. Powered narrowboats on British canals are not permitted to create a breaking wash (a wake large enough to create a breaking wave) along the banks, as this erodes them. This rule normally restricts these vessels to 4 statute miles per hour or less.

Tell that to a freighter on the St Lawrence.

 

[Don S]

Re: No Wake vs. 5 mph Buoy and BAD Encounter w/ Sheriff

1. What is the difference between a no wake and a 5 mph bouy and is a 5 mph bouy a "public Buoy"?

One has nothing to do with the other. Two different rules.
Do Not go over 5 mph.
Do Not make a wake.

If you make a wake at 5 mph, you break the wake rule (slow down and don't make a wake), if you go 6 or 7 mph without leaving a wake, you are breaking the speed rule.
Since both the 5 mph and no wake were both on the bouy, then both should be followed.