Registering Canoe In NY. Really This Difficult?

Mobalized

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As pretty much everyone knows NY sucks, and I have no idea why I moved back here after separating from active duty. My mistake that I now live with everyday. So here is my situation.

I bought a canoe from a guy on Craigslist last spring. It is a double ended canoe (not square stern) and was never used with a motor or specifically intended for one. Once you put a motor on it in NY it has to be registered. So day 1 at the DMV, I brought in a boat's hull identification number and was ready to fill out some paperwork and pay this great state (sarcasm much?). Well that got shut down fast, I needed to either bring in pictures of the HIN or do a pencil shading of it. So I went home, got pictures and came back the next day. Now I get the "Oh it shouldn't be any problem to register this." I fill out four forms and have to explain that I do not know the guy I bought it from and have no paperwork for it because it is a canoe that was purchased from Craigslist. As the woman is processing my information she stops and informs me that because the canoe is over 14 feet I must go through NY State Parks and Rec to get a title. Which requires filling out a form, sending it to Albany, waiting for contact from them to schedule a inspection of the craft so that a title can be issued (obviously for a fee) then I can come back and register with the DMV....

So at this point I am about to do the not so honest thing and go to another DMV and just say its 13'6" and be done with it. Anyone have any experience with something like this or words of wisdom?
 

Home Cookin'

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Re: Registering Canoe In NY. Really This Difficult?

experience? yes. Wisdom? seldom seen in association with bureaucracy.

The world was a better place when motors under 10 HP were exempt.

Problem with fudging the length is that the HIN might tie in to the manufacturer's official length and get you in trouble. on the other hand, maybe you can check the manufacturer info and the official size is under 14?

The whole boat titling/registration process for small boats is absurd.
 

JoLin

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Re: Registering Canoe In NY. Really This Difficult?

Hi, and welcome to iboats.

Afraid I don't have much sympathy for your predicament. Why don't you have paperwork? Who buys a boat without getting a receipt from the seller? You want NY to register the boat for you, but you don't have any proof that it's yours. You did it- don't blame New York.

Sounds like you're already following the right path, so follow it until you're done.

Good luck.
 

Lurch77

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Re: Registering Canoe In NY. Really This Difficult?

That's a lot of mess to go through. But for peace of mind in the future I would go through with it and get it done with. We are lucky here in WI. So long as a boat is manually powered, it does not need to be registered, no matter the size of the vessel. On the plus side, registration can make it harder for a thief to use the vessel.
 
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Re: Registering Canoe In NY. Really This Difficult?

Hi, and welcome to iboats.

Afraid I don't have much sympathy for your predicament. Why don't you have paperwork? Who buys a boat without getting a receipt from the seller? You want NY to register the boat for you, but you don't have any proof that it's yours. You did it- don't blame New York.

Sounds like you're already following the right path, so follow it until you're done.

Good luck.


One other thing to realize is that every state is different as far as the boat registration/titling process. Some states don't title boats, some states title all boats, some states only title boats larger than a certain size, some states only title boats with an engine, etc. etc. It would make a lot more sense for all states to do it the same way, but I don't see that happening.

And yes, before buying a boat one should check into what's required to register and use that boat, including all the safety rules and regulations.
 

jbach

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Re: Registering Canoe In NY. Really This Difficult?

moving to a non-communist state would be probably a simpler process.
 

Mobalized

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Re: Registering Canoe In NY. Really This Difficult?

moving to a non-communist state would be probably a simpler process.
This is true.


Hi, and welcome to iboats.

Afraid I don't have much sympathy for your predicament. Why don't you have paperwork? Who buys a boat without getting a receipt from the seller? You want NY to register the boat for you, but you don't have any proof that it's yours. You did it- don't blame New York.

Sounds like you're already following the right path, so follow it until you're done.

Good luck.

Clearly you do not live under Hitlers' regime. The canoe was never purchased by the previous owner or myself for motorized use. So no title or registration was of any concern, however now that some time has passed and I've decided to register I have to jump through flaming hoops with a wad of hundred dollar bills in hand. You can buy a canoe from Joe blow on the side of the road with no paperwork. Put a motor on it; then be prepared to bend over.
 

Mobalized

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Re: Registering Canoe In NY. Really This Difficult?

Also when you use the term but a "boat" my understanding is that it was not a "boat" as defined under the motorized portion of NY state law. Meaning it essentially requires no paperwork. Had I have just bought a ten thousand dollar pontoon boat or something I would have wanted documents... It's a three-hundred dollar canoe....
 

matt167

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Re: Registering Canoe In NY. Really This Difficult?

You had better come up with a bill of sale from your brothers uncle's sister in law ( anyone you can get to 'sell' you your boat ). They are going to need it to provide ownership or the only other way is to say it is hommade, but then you need receipts for the build to prove you paid for it.

This is the form you need to send to NYS parks http://nysparks.com/recreation/boating/documents/HINApplication.pdf
 

JASinIL2006

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Re: Registering Canoe In NY. Really This Difficult?

I had to register a kayak in Illinois a few years ago. The kayak was a gift from my sister (who lives in DC) to my kids, and it was purchased by her and sent directly to us. It was a total pain to register, involving asking my sister for a copy of the bill of sale so we could file forms to pay taxes on the kayak (even though we didn't buy it), in addition to the DNR forms for the kayak registration itself. What a hassle...
 

roscoe

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Re: Registering Canoe In NY. Really This Difficult?

So why are you registering it?

Do you plan on putting a motor on it?
 

JASinIL2006

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Re: Registering Canoe In NY. Really This Difficult?

That was years ago... I just looked on the DNR website and found that they no longer require kayaks, canoes and paddle boats in IL to be registered. We should have waited a few years! Would have saved me some aggravation...
 

biglurr54

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Re: Registering Canoe In NY. Really This Difficult?

I hate ny as well. Unfortunately its where we live. I bought a jet ski with no papers. I went to VT after one try in NY. VT sent me home with a transferable registration. They just wanted a bill of sale and the hull #. Check the website in vt for what you need. It was laot easier than tracking down the death certificate of the indivdual who owned my jet ski three owners before me. Now i have a VT Transferable Registration. I may register it in NY with that. I did the same with a venture trailer for my boat. Registered it in Maine with a bill of sale and then once that expired i used the transferable reg from Maine to register it in NY and got a Transferable Reg from NY.

NY also has the option to register. You can register anything you want with out holding paper work. I have sold cars to people with out any paper work who registered them in NY. You won't have proof of ownership or the ability to sell it to someone like a transferable registration but you will get the stickers you need. And for a canoe who really cares about a transferable reg. Most get paddled. Its a shame we have to be deceitful in this state to do anything. You would think they would want to make it easier to register so they can track down stuff easier.
 

Home Cookin'

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Re: Registering Canoe In NY. Really This Difficult?

Afraid I don't have much sympathy for your predicament....

Why don't you have paperwork? Who buys a boat without getting a receipt from the seller? You want NY to register the boat for you, but you don't have any proof that it's yours. You did it- don't blame New York...

I do. he bought a canoe that doesn't need, nor typically have, paperwork. Like a lawn mower, TV or chain saw. No need to sound so self-righteous.

And I also "blame New York" and every other state that has these non-sensicle laws and processes (worse are the ones that title outboard motors! Brilliant!)

Overbearing laws make law-abiding men become criminals, and that is not the purpose or desired effect of laws. They also erode any respect one might have for laws and the systems that use them (like the zero tolerance policies in schools). Laws are to serve citizens, not inflict them.

FTR I do not have any sympathy for those with the daily posts "I just bought this boat; what is it and how do I get a title?" when they bought something that clearly should be registered, or once was.
I have empathy for those who inherit the old family boat with paperwork issues; it's just wrong, communist, even, to take away family heirlooms that way.
Those who accept free boats with title issues, well they can always dump it.
 

Mobalized

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Re: Registering Canoe In NY. Really This Difficult?

Thanks everyone, I called every agency and their mother today. Dmv is wrong, NY parks and rec has nothing to do with titling a vessel, all they do is give a HIN if it doesn't already have one. But since it was made in recent years it already has one. Also found out all I had to do was call Old Town and they are sending me a certificate of origin. This is the document I need to count as a title to complete registration. I went back in to verify, they agreed.
 

spoilsofwar

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Re: Registering Canoe In NY. Really This Difficult?

I've found from experience that the answer you will get to a question posed to DMV regarding almost anything will vary from day to day, and from DMV to DMV. Whenever I've had an issue registering stuff (I used to buy and sell a lot of Sea-Doos), I just went to a different DMV.

As a born and raised New Yorker, I hate New York. Hate, hate, hate.

I only live here because the Army told me to, and when I leave next year I am never coming back.

/rant
 

Mobalized

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Re: Registering Canoe In NY. Really This Difficult?

I've found from experience that the answer you will get to a question posed to DMV regarding almost anything will vary from day to day, and from DMV to DMV. Whenever I've had an issue registering stuff (I used to buy and sell a lot of Sea-Doos), I just went to a different DMV.

As a born and raised New Yorker, I hate New York. Hate, hate, hate.

I only live here because the Army told me to, and when I leave next year I am never coming back.

/rant
A most crappy place it is.
 

JoLin

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Re: Registering Canoe In NY. Really This Difficult?

Did I sound self-righteous? Wasn't my intent. It's a legitimate question. Who buys a boat and doesn't get a bill of sale for it? The OP's explanation was that he 'bought from a guy off Craigslist.' That a reason not to have a bill of sale? If you read my tag, NY is where I live, too. Yeah, lots of rules and a pain in the butt sometimes. 'Hitler's regime'... ridiculous.

This isn't exactly rocket science, guys. OP lives in a state that requires certain procedures and papers to register a 'motor' boat. He ignored that and is now complaining that he needs to 'jump through hoops.' Duh. I've purchased 4 boats here, sold two, and never had an issue. If you read and comprehend the laws in your individual state, you can avoid these hassles.

Finally, rather than just take care of it, the OP is wondering whether he oughta just circumvent the law because that'd be a lot more convenient than following it.

Said my piece, done with htis thread. Have a great day, guys.
 

matt167

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Re: Registering Canoe In NY. Really This Difficult?

Would you ask for a bill of sale when buying a used lawnmower? I know I don't, and that's the same kind of thing.. DMV once told me that they are not supposed to accept hand written bill of sales anymore, so even if he did have a bill of sale for the boat, it likely would not be on a NY DMV DTF-802 form as it would not have anything to do with any kind of registration being a non powered boat. At that point, it may or may not be valid depending who is working the DMV window that day and what kind of mood they are in.
 

H20Rat

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Re: Registering Canoe In NY. Really This Difficult?

I do. he bought a canoe that doesn't need, nor typically have, paperwork. Like a lawn mower, TV or chain saw. No need to sound so self-righteous.

So how many people register a lawnmower, tv, or chain saw? Your comparison is a long ways from valid. He obviously needs paperwork in this case, otherwise he wouldn't be posted about how to register it.

I'm in the camp of its the OP's fault. I can't imagine buying a vehicle of ANY sort without a bill of sale. It is to protect both the buyer and the seller. I even do bill of sale's for non-registerable things, if there is a chance that ownership of that item could ever be traced back to me. (guns in particular, even though we don't yet have to register firearms, you can be absolutely sure there are 2 copies of a bill of sale with any transaction, you get one, i get one, both signed.)

Look at it from the point of view of the state. I've got joe schmo coming in trying to get a title/registration for a vehicle for which he has no bill of sale, no paperwork, he doesn't even know who he 'bought' it from. My first thought is that he 'bought' it from someone's backyard when they weren't looking. The hoops the OP now has to go through are because it looks stolen.
 
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