I think I got the OK for an upgrade this weekend! (21ft bowrider?)

gtochris

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
742
:)

the Stingray is 19ft but has a VERY hard ride on anything but flat water, it just beats you up! I've been looking for a bit but after this last weekend my partner had enough and we resent not being able to run on plane across a choppy lake, it is a common thing to get the windshield wet from splash. Growing up my family had a 1990 Regal 19ft but with the Deep V and heavier weight, that boat was our benchmark for a good quality ride- something the stingray doesnt have.

We wakeboard, want to do near 50 or more MPH, still need decent MPG (love the 3.0L for that), and want a bowrider. Dont want any larger than 22ft due to occasional low water issues and want a sub 4,000 towing weight since I'll be likely getting a lighter duty tow vehicle in the coming year.

We looked at an 07 Glastron GT205 with 23 hours last week and a 4.3L MPI, it just still had the low profile look of our stingray and narrow beam with a non deep V hull making me think the ride won't be an improvement? Price was 16K with matching tandom trailer and extended platform which I thought was OK however it needed a MAJOR detail and showed some serious wear for 23 hours!

I'd LOVE a sea ray Select, but they are too expensive and I want to stay 2003+, I'm attracted to the 205 Sport from '05+ but wonder how the ride is? and question how much Bayliner influence is on them due to the Brunswick connection? (dash looks very sparse...)
Also like the Crownline and Chaparelle 21ft's... Other must have's are fresh water- no bottom paint, the "sport seating" and snap in carpet. Would really like the Merc MPI 4.3L or 5.0.

I guess I'm excited that I'm with someone that wants to spend money:) but want ALL of this for under or around $15K, am I reasonable? I've been looking some and think I can do reasonable selling our Stingray due to it being in above average condition and we did alot to restore/ maintain it to a turn key level.
 

MJG24

Seaman
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
68
Re: I think I got the OK for an upgrade this weekend! (21ft bowrider?)

I don't think you'll find a 21-22 ft. boat with a sub 4,000 towing weight.
 

bekosh

Lieutenant
Joined
Apr 27, 2004
Messages
1,382
Re: I think I got the OK for an upgrade this weekend! (21ft bowrider?)

Sub 4,000 will be real tough in that size range. One that might be in the ballpark, if you can find one, is the 2002 Wellcraft 210 Excalibur Sport. And with a 21? deadrise you would get a good rough water ride.
L.O.A. 20'6" (6.24m)
Beam 8'3" (2.51m)
Dry weight w/engine (approx.) 2900 lbs. (1315kg)
Fuel capacity 35 gal. (132.4L)
Max horsepower @ prop 260 HP (193.8kw)
Deadrise 21?

PERFORMANCE DATA - Volvo 4.3 GL SX
Time to Plane 3.04 Seconds
Top Speed 46 MPH @ 4600 RPM
Cruise Speed 33.1 MPH @ 3500 RPM
Cruise Range 132 Miles
 

jkust

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
4,942
Re: I think I got the OK for an upgrade this weekend! (21ft bowrider?)

I think the trailer weight is going to be hard to deal with. My 18 foot dave chapelle is over 4,000lbs on the single axle trailer. The equivalent 21 or 22 foot model is substantially heavier. Weight and deadrise will be the big factors as to the ride quality...the reason my 18 footer rides so well is it is crazy heavy with a long running surface and the ride defines dry. I like to go out on the big water to get my money's worth. The 210 Excaliber is lighter than my 18 footer. With weight then you will start to loose speed but those lost 4 or 5 mph aren't utilized much for very long. I think 15k is right at the bottom of the reasonable mark but you are going to go early 2000's to get nice for that little $. As for fuel efficiency, the 3.0 will yield the same or very similar fuel as the 4.3 all else equal given the 4.3 works far less as boattest.com will show you with their formal testing.
 

gtochris

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
742
Re: I think I got the OK for an upgrade this weekend! (21ft bowrider?)

I probably shouldnt have mentioned towing weight as that really isnt too important since Im not going over the road but it was on my mind as I was also thinking along the lines of not too heavy due to poor MPG but I know that is a gray area...
Bekosh, If I could find an Excalibur I would consider (as long as condition warrants looking at a 10yo boat) They use to sell them on our lake and I still see plenty! They have a nice deep V.
 

haulnazz15

Captain
Joined
Mar 9, 2009
Messages
3,720
Re: I think I got the OK for an upgrade this weekend! (21ft bowrider?)

Glastron is going to have the same ride characteristics as your Stingray. I don't know that you are going to get a ton of improvement by going up 2' in length, especially if you have a 4K lbs towing capacity. My 20' runs around 3500 by itself, much less the trailer. Also, you may be able to deal with a 3L in your 18'er, but it will be a dog in a 20-21' boat. The 4.3L is the minimum you'll likely see in any modern 20' boat, and I'd highly recommend the v8 for resale value alone.
 

jkust

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
4,942
Re: I think I got the OK for an upgrade this weekend! (21ft bowrider?)

I've actually messed around on a big water lake racing that exact Excaliber. It had a nice v8 in it but really wasn't more than a hair faster but had captains call so sounded much nicer. I clicked on the link and I see it is actually a vec hull which suprised me a bit. Those come on the market around here every now and then and have suprisingly low pricing. For a 20 footer or over, even a lightly built one, I'd try my best to locate the biggest engine that was available. For an under 20 footer I'd do the same but would be happy with a 4.3mpi which for my boat was the third smallest of 10 engine choices (because both Mercruiser and Volvo were offered).
 

gtochris

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
742
Re: I think I got the OK for an upgrade this weekend! (21ft bowrider?)

I checked out a few wellcrafts, they are rare to find and many have way more power than I want but the hull is right- I'll keep my eye out.
What about a 21ft Crownline? They seem to be built rather wide and anything I look at is about 900-1,000 lbs more than our Stingray (2,200-2,300 I believe). LOVE the LPX package!
 

LippCJ7

Vice Admiral
Joined
Sep 20, 2010
Messages
5,431
Re: I think I got the OK for an upgrade this weekend! (21ft bowrider?)

This whole thread you have been talking about MPG, love the fuel efficiency and so on, now you throw out a Crownline which has never been in a fuel efficiency thread ever! LOL Do I think you will love a Crownline, absolutely but remember they are a Sport Bowrider, Quality made Hull means they are heavy, combine the two and you have a gas eating boat.

I think if you are serious about a Crownline look at the 225, they are the size that Crownline makes the most of, and probably is the best bang for the buck, I don't know if you will find one with a 3.0L in fact I can't remember seeing one, ever, most common are 350's and MAG's, they will be easier on your wife and thats one of the very reasons why I went bigger, my wifes bad back, and have never looked back. They are easily a 50 MPH hull depending on power.
 

gtochris

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
742
Re: I think I got the OK for an upgrade this weekend! (21ft bowrider?)

This whole thread you have been talking about MPG, love the fuel efficiency and so on, now you throw out a Crownline which has never been in a fuel efficiency thread ever! LOL Do I think you will love a Crownline, absolutely but remember they are a Sport Bowrider, Quality made Hull means they are heavy, combine the two and you have a gas eating boat.

I think if you are serious about a Crownline look at the 225, they are the size that Crownline makes the most of, and probably is the best bang for the buck, I don't know if you will find one with a 3.0L in fact I can't remember seeing one, ever, most common are 350's and MAG's, they will be easier on your wife and thats one of the very reasons why I went bigger, my wifes bad back, and have never looked back. They are easily a 50 MPH hull depending on power.

I wouldnt consider a 3.0L again- Nothing short of a 4.3 MPI and I realize after 21-22 it will have a 5.0 or 5.7.

The 225 is a sharp boat- been out forever, I imagine it would HAVE to be a ride improvement simply due to size and weight-I'm not running an inlet- but looking for a reasonable compromise.

I saw a 206LS (Crownline) last night online and that had a nice layout and seem to be many with engines ranging from the 4.3L to the 350 MAG.
 

jkust

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
4,942
Re: I think I got the OK for an upgrade this weekend! (21ft bowrider?)

That Crownline and your Stingray aren't in the same stratosphere. I think you have a bit of narrowing down to do. Where MPI is concerned, it came out with the 2002 model year and so you see MPI on far, far fewer under 20 foot boats as you do in over 20 foot boats in the early 2000's. Interestingly, for the under 20 foot boats in the few years following MPI introduction, I see more Crownline's with MPI than other brands. I don't know why that is given the early and mid 2000's under 20 foot Crownlines never even had snap out carpet which to me would have been be standard as it was for there similar competitors. Stuff that came later on the under 20 footers was included on over 20 footers for some brands.
 

UncleWillie

Captain
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Messages
3,995
Re: I think I got the OK for an upgrade this weekend! (21ft bowrider?)

The Stingray is 19ft but has a VERY hard ride on anything but flat water, it just beats you up! ...

Going up two feet isn't going to change the ride much.

If the current boat doesn't have Smart Tabs, you might be extremely surprised in how much these help.
You are going to want to add them to the new boat also.

I run an 18 footer on lake Erie. Any thing under 1 foot is considered calm. Whitecaps are common.
Before the Tabs, 16 mph was all we could take, It would slam HARD any faster. Kidney busting HARD!
After the tabs we can run in the mid 20's.
It doesn't slam any more but the water blowing back over the bow in a head wind starts to sting at speed.

Try them, they will turn the VW bug ride into a Caddy.
 

gtochris

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
742
Re: I think I got the OK for an upgrade this weekend! (21ft bowrider?)

Going up two feet isn't going to change the ride much.

If the current boat doesn't have Smart Tabs, you might be extremely surprised in how much these help.
You are going to want to add them to the new boat also.

I run an 18 footer on lake Erie. Any thing under 1 foot is considered calm. Whitecaps are common.
Before the Tabs, 16 mph was all we could take, It would slam HARD any faster. Kidney busting HARD!
After the tabs we can run in the mid 20's.
It doesn't slam any more but the water blowing back over the bow in a head wind starts to sting at speed.

Try them, they will turn the VW bug ride into a Caddy.

I have seen a few installs around here- will have to research that some more since it could be an option to buy some time. Just a little nervous about drilling holes and securing such a high stress piece into the boat with screws.
 

UncleWillie

Captain
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Messages
3,995
Re: I think I got the OK for an upgrade this weekend! (21ft bowrider?)

I have seen a few installs around here- will have to research that some more since it could be an option to buy some time. Just a little nervous about drilling holes and securing such a high stress piece into the boat with screws.

As the people with them how they like them.
You should hear overwhelming positive responses.:)

It is an easy 1 hour install.
The screws are extremely secure.
It is not Highly Stressed, you can lift them with your hands.
For a 19ft boat I would recommend the 60lb actuators.

Drill an 1/8" hole, Countersink the gel coat, drill the final hole. Prevents gel chipping.
After the first hole, the the strange concept of drilling holes in the boat below the waterline goes away. :D
Be sure to put sealant on all the screws when you put them in.

The only negative would be deciding that now you don't "Need" a new boat! :eek:
 

oldjeep

Admiral
Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
6,455
Re: I think I got the OK for an upgrade this weekend! (21ft bowrider?)

How is forcing the bow down going to improve the ride in rough water?
 

UncleWillie

Captain
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Messages
3,995
Re: I think I got the OK for an upgrade this weekend! (21ft bowrider?)

How is forcing the bow down going to improve the ride in rough water?

By getting the bow down you split the oncoming wave instead of slamming on top of it and skipping off.
Going through the chop is much smoother than going over it.

This assumes a boat with a "Vee" style hull.
A Jon boat is not going to be improved.
 

haulnazz15

Captain
Joined
Mar 9, 2009
Messages
3,720
Re: I think I got the OK for an upgrade this weekend! (21ft bowrider?)

By getting the bow down you split the oncoming wave instead of slamming on top of it and skipping off.
Going through the chop is much smoother than going over it.

This assumes a boat with a "Vee" style hull.
A Jon boat is not going to be improved.

I'm not inclined to agree, as it will vary from boat to boat. I prefer getting the bow out of the water to ride further back on the pad. Driving the bow into the water makes for the wetter ride for bow passengers and introduces bow steer. Different boats may behave in different manners. V-hulls may "cut" through waves, but the impact of hitting each wave isn't necessarily more comfortable than riding over some of them.
 

emoney

Commander
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
2,551
Re: I think I got the OK for an upgrade this weekend! (21ft bowrider?)

Sounds to me like the answer has been given in the trim tabs. If not, I'm thinking you may need to give something up in order to find a new boat because adding "good fuel economy" + "20 footer or more" + "under 4k towing" + "50mph" doesn't add up very easily, lol. I wish it did.

Spending a few hundred on trim tabs to improve your ride quality, now that "computes". Good luck!
 

oldjeep

Admiral
Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
6,455
Re: I think I got the OK for an upgrade this weekend! (21ft bowrider?)

By getting the bow down you split the oncoming wave instead of slamming on top of it and skipping off.
Going through the chop is much smoother than going over it.

This assumes a boat with a "Vee" style hull.
A Jon boat is not going to be improved.

Doing that on minnetonka in my boat would result in a swamped boat. Some days it is hard enough to keep the bow high enough to keep a random wave from coming over the front.
 

UncleWillie

Captain
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Messages
3,995
Re: I think I got the OK for an upgrade this weekend! (21ft bowrider?)

Doing that on minnetonka in my boat would result in a swamped boat. Some days it is hard enough to keep the bow high enough to keep a random wave from coming over the front.

It sounds like you already have enough bow down going for you.
Do you get the kidney busting slam when hitting chop above 25 mph?
Trim tabs are similar to putting two good sized adults in the bow. Just without the weight.
I will assume you notice the difference in handling by moving passengers from the bow to the stern.
 
Top