Why does wood rot so fast? Did tall ships rot this quick?

[rednecktech00]

Re: Why does wood rot so fast? Did tall ships rot this quick?

I had no idea small wooden boats could last 60 years. Do you have pics of her?

[/QUOTE]

Beautiful! It looks like a new boat. Thanks for the pics.[/QUOTE]

Yes, Beautiful

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Why does wood rot so fast? Did tall ships rot this quick?

the wooden boats at least in salt water last longer than all those 1980's-1990's fiberglass cheapies that you all keep finding full of rotten wood!
I find old ship timbers on the beach--they may be splintered but no rot anywhere--after being buried in sand and water for 200 years or more, then up in the dunes.
I'm trying to figure out the petrified wood with iron on it.

Meanwhile, out on the Chesapeake Bay and the sounds of the outer banks, and the seaside of the Eastern Shore--wooden work boats are everywhere--run hard and not "maintained" like the recreational lake boat. Covers? Ha! lucky to have paint!

For example: this is what some people around here use for the pontoon/party barge--a whole lot more class!

http://norfolk.craigslist.org/boa/2795452247.html

Or how about any of these:

http://norfolk.craigslist.org/bod/2799443903.html

 

[BillP]

Re: Why does wood rot so fast? Did tall ships rot this quick?

Stuff not mentioned yet...All woods have dormant rot spores. When the temp and humidity is right they start growing. Too much water or too low of temp and they stay dormant. Northern temps keep northen boats from rotting as fast as southern boats. All wood can rot, even teak...but some are more resistant. Old growth southern yellow pine is full of pine tar and is highly resistant. Cedar actually is not more rot resistant but is insect resistant. Oak in southern climes is bad...Hard woods tend to hold moisture moisture longer and are more prone to rotting than soft woods when exposed to southern climes. The soft woods dry faster and take that element out of the moisture/temperature formula. Old sailing ships had shelves inside the hull that held rock salt...to keep rot from happening.

I won't even talk about termites but they have eaten up many boats in the south.

bp

 

[minx163]

Re: Why does wood rot so fast? Did tall ships rot this quick?

technically water does not rot anything. it is fungus that rots the wood(dry Rot) Salt is a preservative and creates a barrier that the fungus is unable to pallet.fresh water carries the fungus deep into places where the fungis will thrive.It is a disease and it can be spread from boat to boat .Yes a boat that has dry rot can contaminate a boat or all the boats next to it.

 

[Mel Taylor]

Re: Why does wood rot so fast? Did tall ships rot this quick?

Stuff not mentioned yet...All woods have dormant rot spores. When the temp and humidity is right they start growing. Too much water or too low of temp and they stay dormant. Northern temps keep northen boats from rotting as fast as southern boats.......... bp

Maybe that explains a rather dim memory from my childhood. I'm almost 74 yrs old and I remember something about someone connected with my family sinking a wooden boat in the Mississippi river in Missouri across from Alton, Illinois every winter when I was a kid and leaving it there until the spring thaw. I think my dad told me that submerging it kept the lumber from shrinking and developing leaks. I think maybe whoever it was might have made his living as a commercial fisherman. Nothing was said about preventing wood rot but I would think that might have been a factor too.

 

[Tahorover]

Re: Why does wood rot so fast? Did tall ships rot this quick?

The very first production FG boat was built by Gar Form in 1947. The Gar Form had no wood in the hull only in the seat bottoms! The stringers are aluminum.

During WWII Gar Wood Industries was building fiberglass radar dishes for the Navy. Late in 1946 the Navy canceled the contract and let GWI keep the equipment.

Gar Wood could see that fiberglass had possibilities. GWI Board of Directors didn't want to cheapen the image of GW wood boats and the project was killed.

Gar Wood loaded up the GWI 's design department for a weekend in Florida and the Gar Form was born. Gar Wood Jr was put in charge and built boats in the back of the Gar Wood plant until he moved to Tulsa in 1948.

My Gar Form has a all aluminum 75hp Universal Blue Jacket Racer.

 

[JimS123]

Re: Why does wood rot so fast? Did tall ships rot this quick?

To the OP.....Probably got more than you expected here, huh? Lots of good stuff. And here you thought that wood boats were even worse than 1980 Bayliners....LOL..!!

Note the spelling of the boat building material in the Gar Wood article. That was an Owens-Corning trademark, invented right here in New York. Saying a boat is built from Fiberglass is just wrong!

Another tidbit....

Another early manufacturer of fiberglas boats was MFG. (Molded Fiberglas Co.). They made cast truck fenders. Someone in marketing decided they should cast boat hulls, so they bought a 15' Lyman wood lapstreak boat (just like mine), used it as a mold (probably ruined that beautiful boat) and cast a bunch of them. They took their brainchild to old Mr. Lyman and said he should sell fiberglas boats because they were the new thing on the market. He wouldn't hear of such a thing, so the MFG truck fender company was stuck with all those hulls. They put wood decks on them just to get rid of them, found out people liked them, and a new company was born. The first year production was an exact copy of a Lyman.

The rest of the story was that the early MFG boats had stringers that didn't even last as long as a Bayliner. Could it be that they gave plastic boats their early bad rep?

 

[Ned L]

Re: Why does wood rot so fast? Did tall ships rot this quick?

Seeing someone else brought up USS Constitution and USS Constelation, .... yep, not much original left in them, Constitution I believe about 8' of her keelson is original. If you look at Charles W. Morgan (whaling ship built in 1841 and now at Mystic Seaport in CT), up until the rebuild she is undergoing at this time about 80% of her from the waterline down was original. That's pretty impressive for a ship that worked actively from 1841 to 1922 and then spent her life in a sand berth up until 1972.
The speed skiff in my avitar was built somewhere around 1940, that makes her 70+ yrs.

 

[ricohman]

Re: Why does wood rot so fast? Did tall ships rot this quick?

I got way more then I bargained for in this thread. But its all great information and things that I never knew.
Iboats forums are like a giant on line encyclopedia
And the size of boats being dictated by how tall a tree is? Who would have guessed?

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Why does wood rot so fast? Did tall ships rot this quick?

I got way more then I bargained for in this thread. But its all great information and things that I never knew.
Iboats forums are like a giant on line encyclopedia
And the size of boats being dictated by how tall a tree is? Who would have guessed?

Yes, isn't it great? But after all this discussion it occurred to me . . .

Why does wood rot so fast? . . . because it can !

Did tall ship rot this fast? . . . nope.

 

[steelespike]

Re: Why does wood rot so fast? Did tall ships rot this quick?

A couple of points In the late 50s or very easrly 60's A friend had a 16ft MFG ,a newer design.He drove it at wot over a strip of rock
in the dark. Just scuffed the bottom but destroyed the gearcase on his brand new 40 hp Johnson.
Century in the 50's used red oak in their structual members most if not all survivors probably have had their bottoms rebuilt.
I had a 1929 Dodge that still had its original bottom when I sold it in early 2000.It allways was inside when not in use.
Wooden boats bottoms swell as they soak up this tightens the seams and they become watert tight.
Unfortunately as time goes by this swelling and shrinking cycle loosens and sometimes breaks the fasteners.
With periods of long dry storage my 29 was ready for refastening when sold, when it would normally needed it at about 10 years.
The breaking of fasteners was sometimes aggravated when a boat was caulked when dry and then soaked up putting even more pressure on the fasteners.I had a number of wood boats that were at the end of the cycle. They wouldn't leak much at rest but after a ride the pump would operate more frenquently for an hour or so till things setteled.
Wood boats are usually quieter,easier riding, react more normally in extreme temperaturers
resist damage hold their true shape better over time.

 

[Tahorover]

Re: Why does wood rot so fast? Did tall ships rot this quick?

A couple of points In the late 50s or very easrly 60's A friend had a 16ft MFG ,a newer design.He drove it at wot over a strip of rock
in the dark. Just scuffed the bottom but destroyed the gearcase on his brand new 40 hp Johnson.
Garwood in the 50's used red oak in their structual members most if not all survivors probably have had their bottoms rebuilt.
I had a 1929 Dodge that still had its original bottom when I sold it in early 2000.It allways was inside when not in use.
Wooden boats bottoms swell as they soak up this tightens the seams and they become watert tight.
Unfortunately as time goes by this swelling and shrinking cycle loosens and sometimes breaks the fasteners.
With periods of long dry storage my 29 was ready for refastening when sold, when it would normally needed it at about 10 years.
The breaking of fasteners was sometimes aggravated when a boat was caulked when dry and then soaked up putting even more pressure on the fasteners.I had a number of wood boats that were at the end of the cycle. They wouldn't leak much at rest but after a ride the pump would operate more frenquently for an hour or so till things setteled.
Wood boats are usually quieter,easier riding, react more normally in extreme temperaturers
resist damage hold their true shape better over time.

Gar Wood didn't build boats in the 50's, my 1946 has white oak in it. Many builders used white oak for frames.

 

[steelespike]

Re: Why does wood rot so fast? Did tall ships rot this quick?

Sorry my bad! I knew full well it was Century that did that. I appologize to all Garwood fans.
I had a mid 30's Garwood sedan utility. I'll edit that post.

 

[BillP]

Re: Why does wood rot so fast? Did tall ships rot this quick?

Back in the day...the wood ship builders chopped trees down and submerged them in water to season (stabilize) the grain. The logs would stay submerged for yrs and rot didn't happen due to the lack of oxygen.

I looked at an early MFG some yrs back. It had the Lyman type lapstrake glass hull with wood for most everything else. If memory is right it also had solid fiberglass stringers that were placed like wood stringers and screwed to the hull instead of glassed. The deck, seating, transon, knees and other pieces were wood.

I'll have to check some reference material from my other location but I believe someone other than GarWood is documented as the first FRP boat builder. As mentioned already, Owens-Corning was the big dog who invented FRP and developed what constuction/engineering methods are still used today in boat building. Diagonal laminating, woven, mat, foam stringers, core construction, composites...thank you Owens-Corning.

bp

bp

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Why does wood rot so fast? Did tall ships rot this quick?

As a boy I worked on several small wooden boats--my first boat "of my own" was a wooden sailboat.

We'd have to swell a boat before launching, usually by piling soaked burlap on the hull, or launch it in a few inches of water on a sandbar. I remember stuffing oakum in the bigger cracks. Everything on the boat was attached by brass (really, bronze I guess) screws. Never nails. painting and varnishing was almost annual.

Out on the river once, this beautiful wood sailboat came by and a friend said, that's what I needed. I said, I'll get a wooden boat right after I get a fiberglas house!

 

[sasto]

Re: Why does wood rot so fast? Did tall ships rot this quick?

We have 2 1960's wooden boats here in the saltwater. They are both 60 something feet. We had a third. He glassed over the exterior of the hull. She met her demise!

Word around here is never glass over an old wooden boat.

 

[Solittle]

Re: Why does wood rot so fast? Did tall ships rot this quick?

A tip on killing wood rot - - regular automotive antifreeze will kill the fungus which causes rot. You can inject it with a large bore hypo as in the size used by vertanarians. I have even read where antifreeze is used to kill the fungus which grows on toe nails.

 

[mrdancer]

Re: Why does wood rot so fast? Did tall ships rot this quick?

...rot didn't happen due to the lack of oxygen. ...

Bingo! Freshwater doesn't rot wood, freshwater + air rots wood. If you keep the wood submerged, there is no rot.

There are paddlewheeler wrecks from the 1870's that surface when river levels get low enough. Those ships were built as quickly and cheaply as possible, meaning they didn't take care to select the best wood for marine use, since their lifespan was usually less than two years anyway. Yet the wood they were built from still exists 140 years later, because it is preserved with freshwater!

As an aside, I built a wooden jon boat in high school shop back in the early 80's - it was small, approximately 8x42. I used marine plywood, pine 2x2s for stringers, epoxy/resin glue, and finished it off with marine spar varnish and marine paint. I had less than $100 in it. I used the boat off and on for a few years on nearby creeks and ponds, then left it set on the farm. About ten years ago my brother took it and used it for a cattle feed trough - I believe he is still using it for that purpose.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Why does wood rot so fast? Did tall ships rot this quick?

and some wood is worse than others. red oak looks nice and turns to mush in a couple of months.

How the wood is painted/sealed makes a huge difference, too. I believe that since there's no such thing as a perfect seal, breathing/draining room is important--like don't seal the bottom of a wooden seat.

if you want to add some mahogony to your boat, get your wood from discarded furniture. often bedrails, headboards and dresser tops are solid--and free on trash day. from that you can make cool bars, drink holders, storage boxes, replace a deck hatch, trim, etc.

 

[Ned L]

Re: Why does wood rot so fast? Did tall ships rot this quick?

As an interesting side-note on early FRP constrtuction this is sort of interesting about Dyer Dhows "In 1949, the first fiberglass sailing dinghy based on the version of the Dhow used during the war was built. While not the first boat ever built of fiberglass, the Dhow is the oldest continuously-built fiberglass boat in production today."
As for wood construcion, build it properly with proper materials, take care of it and it will outlast us all. Many people see wooden boats as very short lived because they see the pleasure boat world where people are lazy and often don't take care of what in effect are meer playtoys. There are a good number of commercial fishing boats (such as salmon seiners) in the PNW that were built in the 1940's and earlier. There are luggers over in the UK that date back to the late 1800's.